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Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

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Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#71

Post by [deleted] »

ptero wrote: post #60
krilly wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

> Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. What country are you talking about? Honest question, just curious. I am in the US, but even today many small and medium sized companies do not monitor internet (block parts, sure, but not monitor) and 10 years ago even large companies did not do it.

[deleted]

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#72

Post by salawat »

krilly wrote: post #29
rahuldottech wrote: post #20

THIS IS NOT OKAY. We can't have children being used to constant surveillance and accepting this as a part of life. It sets them up for so many problems in the future, where they won't understand the serious implications of constant tracking and surveillance. And sure, nothing too bad comes out of this stuff right now in most of the world, but have you seen China? The minute a government decides to do so, all that dat…

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

You really shouldn't cite China as an example of anything being justifiably "normalized".

Furthermore, children can't actually accept T&C's as a matter of binding law. The fact they just push the button notwithstanding.

What has been normalized is legal predation (something parents should be paying attention to and warning children about as they get older), and apathy toward actively slapping down abusive corporate business models. This is showing indications of turning around, but there is still a lot of work to be done.

In terms of monitoring Internet usage at schools; it may be done to a point, but I'm far more concerned with the trend toward omnipresent physical surveillance through facial recognition or device fingerprinting. It's one thing to try to police content to appropriate subject matter for a school; it's completely different to start holding a child accountable to having a digital footprint to manage all the time. Adults can't even manage that responsibly, and I don't think forcing them to do it while they are young will play well with ensuring they understand how to navigate the physical world well.

Given the adversarial objectives of most technology companies, I can't see the sense in putting in the effort to basically manufacture "trained consumers" for big tech. I'd rather see them taught computing in general and gradually introduce them to software creation and program awareness so they can make their own decisions. Of course, that seems to end up the kind of thing you get at vocational schools instead of primary Ed nowadays.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#73

Post by some_random »

ptah wrote: post #55
systemtest wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just fix the underlaying issue. Switzerland has 2 million guns on 8 million citizens. Yet no school shootings. Why don't they have school shootings and can we apply the Swiss system to the United States?

it's not as easy to get guns in switzerland as in the US

It is though, manual arms are arguably easier to buy than in the US. Semi-automatics require more work, but it's still easier than buying an NFA item.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#74

Post by blattimwind »

krilly wrote: post #29
rahuldottech wrote: post #20

THIS IS NOT OKAY. We can't have children being used to constant surveillance and accepting this as a part of life. It sets them up for so many problems in the future, where they won't understand the serious implications of constant tracking and surveillance. And sure, nothing too bad comes out of this stuff right now in most of the world, but have you seen China? The minute a government decides to do so, all that dat…

Which bit of this are you upset with specifically? Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. The clear backpacks are silly I'll admit, and also pointless. I agree that kids getting conditioned to be okay with surveillance is bad, but this is all coming from the private sector right now. In China, you now have to submit your face to be scanned…

> That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades.

Monitoring work or school internet use without specific prior suspicion is illegal in the entire EU; so this level of surveillance may be "standard" in some countries, but hardly globally.

> In China,

Not exactly the reference I was looking for, though from this perspective any level of surveillance is normal.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#75

Post by lolc »

datenwolf wrote: post #44
Symbiote wrote: post #34

> Water bottles must also be clear, so school officials can see the color of the liquid inside. Given the huge range of drinks available in the USA, especially soft drinks, I'm curious to know what colour isn't acceptable.

Also a lot of harmful and/or combustible liquids are clear like water. Methanol, ethanol, propanol, acetone, benzene, cyclohexane are all highly combustible and colorless. Also concentrated nitric acid or concentrated sodium hydroxide lye are both colorless and cause severe chemical burns.

Don't write this on a school-owned laptop though! You shouldn't know about this. Why are you interested in this? What if it gives another kid ideas?

(That was sarcasm.)

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#76

Post by sschueller »

ptah wrote: post #55
systemtest wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just fix the underlaying issue. Switzerland has 2 million guns on 8 million citizens. Yet no school shootings. Why don't they have school shootings and can we apply the Swiss system to the United States?

it's not as easy to get guns in switzerland as in the US

It's not that hard either (over 18, don't have any violent crime history or mental issues (self harm) and Swiss citizen (exceptions exist)) however not every type of gun or knife is legal. Magazines for guns over 20 rounds are not legal and neither are rifle magazines with more than 10 rounds. Fully automatic guns are not permitted unless it was received during military service. Butterfly knifes and throwing knifes are also illegal.

[1] https://www.fedpol.admin.ch/dam/data/fedpol/sicherheit/waffe...

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#77

Post by giancarlostoro »

foldr wrote: post #64
giancarlostoro wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The right to bear arms was paid for in blood and not just once. And worse, gun restrictions only benefit criminals. There's plenty of people who legally own firearms and protect their homes and their property legally. They also avoid plenty of crime since criminals tend to run when a gun is pulled on them especially in stand your ground states. They've tried banning everything in England and criminals will still ki…

>They've tried banning everything in England and criminals will still kill people with just about anything anything. First it's the guns, then knives, then machetes. If these alternatives are just as effective as guns, why do you feel that you need a gun? Of course, you know that guns are more effective at killing people - especially large numbers of people. That's why we in the UK have not had a mass killing in a sc…

> Of course, you know that guns are more effective at killing people - especially large numbers of people.

A knife is quiet, you could probably kill more people with knives, a gun is loud and everyone nearby will hear it, probably what a crazy shooter would want is to strike fear into victims.

> You're more likely to use the gun to kill yourself or a family member than you are to use it to kill an intruder.

Since neither of those two are a viable option for myself, I'd rather have a gun, and only ever shoot it at a range than not have one and watch the worse possible scenario unfold before me.

> Killing someone who breaks into your home is most likely an overreaction in any case. The chances are very low that they've broken in with the intention of harming you rather than merely stealing something.

I don't know that, and I don't have to kill them if I pull a gun on them unless my life is in immediate danger. There's cases where a mother held the intruder at gun point until cops showed up to make an arrest.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#78

Post by shadowgovt »

JoBrad wrote: post #26
t34543 wrote: post #2

> This level of surveillance is “not too over-the-top”, Ingrid said, and she feels her classmates are generally “accepting” of it. Of course they think that, they’re still kids. Who’s going to protect them from surveillance? IMO this is way over the top - and it’s conditioning future generations to accept this level of surveillance as adults.

I agree that it is way over-the-top. Counterpoint to your conditioning point: kids tend to rebel against oversight, and will probably include this in the list of things they reject.

Or they will observe the world doesn't burn down around them with this level of surveillance in place and will come to find it normal.

Which may very well be fine; perhaps it's a useful normal.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#79

Post by giancarlostoro »

lm28469 wrote: post #58
giancarlostoro wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The right to bear arms was paid for in blood and not just once. And worse, gun restrictions only benefit criminals. There's plenty of people who legally own firearms and protect their homes and their property legally. They also avoid plenty of crime since criminals tend to run when a gun is pulled on them especially in stand your ground states. They've tried banning everything in England and criminals will still ki…

> And worse, gun restrictions only benefit criminals. There's plenty of people who legally own firearms and protect their homes and their property legally. The real question is why are the US ranking so high in violent crime and murder rates compared to other developed countries. You shouldn't feel the need to "protect" your home in the #1 power in the world.

I don't think it's guns, there's other countries where you have gun rights that don't have this problem. Then there's countries where guns were forced out of citizens hands and the government went rogue (Venezuela).
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