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Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

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Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#31

Post by cj »

kaibee wrote: post #24
cj wrote: post #21

I get that some people don't like this. But the reality is that schools are a lot more dangerous than they were just 10 years ago. If our response to that shouldn't be cameras and backpack checks, then what's an appropriate response? (Perhaps the bigger picture political answer is "gun control", but that's not something schools can sit around a wait for to happen)

> But the reality is that schools are a lot more dangerous than they were just 10 years ago. Do you have a source for this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...

Compare 2000's to 2010–2014 to 2015 to 2019.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#32

Post by elicash »

kaibee wrote: post #24
cj wrote: post #21

I get that some people don't like this. But the reality is that schools are a lot more dangerous than they were just 10 years ago. If our response to that shouldn't be cameras and backpack checks, then what's an appropriate response? (Perhaps the bigger picture political answer is "gun control", but that's not something schools can sit around a wait for to happen)

> But the reality is that schools are a lot more dangerous than they were just 10 years ago. Do you have a source for this?

Not trying to take a side (though I'm against clear backpacks and monitoring), but here's a chart I found quickly:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/V8zMSpOAM50-sxWp--S6J...

Shootings are still rare, just less so.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#33

Post by rahuldottech »

cj wrote: post #21

I get that some people don't like this. But the reality is that schools are a lot more dangerous than they were just 10 years ago. If our response to that shouldn't be cameras and backpack checks, then what's an appropriate response? (Perhaps the bigger picture political answer is "gun control", but that's not something schools can sit around a wait for to happen)

> But the reality is that schools are a lot more dangerous than they were just 10 years ago.

Only in certain places in the western world, due to the governments refusal to implement gun control. Most countries haven't had a school shooting in decades (or ever).

Gun control doesn't work? Go tell that to the graves of children who died due to school shootings, just because the country they were born in refused to implement gun control.

It's frankly ridiculous to the rest of the world how easily people can buy guns in the US.

This is not a problem that can or should be solved with surveillance. It's a gun problem, that should be solved by making guns harder to get.

Edit: Why the downvotes? Is anything I've said not true? Please do explain.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#36

Post by diffeomorphism »

cj wrote: post #21

I get that some people don't like this. But the reality is that schools are a lot more dangerous than they were just 10 years ago. If our response to that shouldn't be cameras and backpack checks, then what's an appropriate response? (Perhaps the bigger picture political answer is "gun control", but that's not something schools can sit around a wait for to happen)

That doesn't seem to be the case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#United_States

> Then what's an appropriate response?

Get rid of the security theater and actually do something about the causes.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#37

Post by kd5bjo »

cj wrote: post #21

I get that some people don't like this. But the reality is that schools are a lot more dangerous than they were just 10 years ago. If our response to that shouldn't be cameras and backpack checks, then what's an appropriate response? (Perhaps the bigger picture political answer is "gun control", but that's not something schools can sit around a wait for to happen)

> What's an appropriate response?

Work to heal the divides in the country and improve social cohesion. Figure out how to reinstill the sense of community that prevented these things over the course of history. Help all students find a supportive peer group.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#38

Post by motohagiography »

Sort of consistent with the idea that U.S. public high schools prepare students for prison.

Why respect authorities or society at all when it's arbitrary like that. It teaches learned helplessness and corruption and creates crappy people. Public schools don't have money, and when they get it, they spend it on this? Private schools and homeschooling programs seem to have a bright future.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#39

Post by leggomylibro »

My Aunt has a child in early middle school - years 6 through 9 or so, for people outside the US.

Not only does the poor kid have a school-issued laptop with heavy monitoring tools installed on it, but they are also required to bring a smartphone to school! My Aunt had made them tape over the laptop's webcam and explained that everything the kid typed could probably be seen by the school, but she was still concerned about the microphone. And the kid is completely incapable of avoiding the more toxic aspects of social media and adtech, because the constant use of smartphones has become a central part of their education. At the age of what, 11-15?

I can only imagine what this is teaching the child. When we caught up over the holidays, they seemed to be more fed up and disgusted with technology than interested in it.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#40

Post by basilgohar »

JoBrad wrote: post #26
t34543 wrote: post #2

> This level of surveillance is “not too over-the-top”, Ingrid said, and she feels her classmates are generally “accepting” of it. Of course they think that, they’re still kids. Who’s going to protect them from surveillance? IMO this is way over the top - and it’s conditioning future generations to accept this level of surveillance as adults.

I agree that it is way over-the-top. Counterpoint to your conditioning point: kids tend to rebel against oversight, and will probably include this in the list of things they reject.

I think this is a gross over-exaggeration. While it is not uncommon for kids to rebel against, for example, their parents at a certain and whatnot, I think this is different than saying that the majority of kids will do it.

The public school system functions as a major conditioning environment to get children used to the norms of society, including deference to authority, following rules, and other things that are generally accepted as good. This is the ideal time for those things to happen because of how pliable the young mind still is.

However, we must be very careful how constrained we make such environments and the idea that safety is guaranteed by subjecting kids to what is effectively zero privacy means we've traded, yet again, liberty for security, thus relinquishing the effective right to both.

This will be as effective at rooting out violence in schools as bombing 3rd world villages has been in rooting out terrorism. Until the underlying issues are addressed (mental health, social disparities, racial divides, etc.) the kettle will continue boiling over and more-and-more unpredictable and chaotic ways.

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