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Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

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161–170 of 323 posts

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#161
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading the article (and hoping i didnt just read over the part), they never mention the word waste once when it comes to the cost calculation. Thats rather convenient seeing as the number of functioning deep repository sites today is rather limited. What good are small operating costs when the build costs are this expensive and we dont have a viable solution for waste management (yet?). In practice these costs are e…

Let's put some numbers to the initiation of this. The entire fleet of reactors in France will after 50 year of operation have produced 5300m3 of high-level waste (the kind you need to store long term). That amounts to less than 400 boxes able to contain a Tesla Model S. 50 years of operation generating 300-400 TWh yearly. I'm not saying it's not problematic, but it's minuscule compared to all forms of power. Even win…

I ran the numbers on nuclear waste generation awhile back and 7-billion people's worth of power needs (assuming western lifestyle) came out to like 1.x times the capacity of the worlds largest container ship worth of waste. That's nothing compared to the waste generated by literally every other method of power generation (except maybe hydroelectric but that has its own environmental trade-offs). We could just dump that in a hole somewhere geologically boring and concrete over it but nobody wants to own the hole.

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#162
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is missing the point. The point is that your house or car would be outrageously expensive too if the engineering cost of the design was amortized over very few units.

That's precisely the point. Once the direct subsidy of nuclear via the military's nuclear weapons buildout went away, new plant construction... went way. The capital costs of any traditional power plant are massive, and fix high costs of goods sold for the life of the plant. This Canadian effort may find a way to build more smaller units, which will be great if they succeed. Solar and wind are disruptive because the…

>Solar and wind are disruptive because the cost to add a marginal unit of generation is near zero.

Can you elaborate here? Solar and wind are relatively cheap, and falling, but a long way from a near zero marginal cost. According to a quick Google, the capital-weighted costs of solar, hydro, wind, geothermal and some newer natural gas plants are similar.

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Fukushima was built to the requirements of 1970's, not those of today (which are much stronger).

The plant was active and very well-maintained, and its operator even planned to extend it (2 more reactors). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_Nuclear_Powe...

Yes, but the original location of site would not be approved today, precisely because of the risk that actualised in the tsunami (even though it is an extremely rare an unlikely occurrence - a tsunami which caused large-scale devastation where the nuclear plant's problems were just a minor issue compared to the huge loss of life and material damage from tsunami itself).

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#164

Isn't it realistic for nuclear disaster to have environmental damage that will last 1000's of years without repair?

Some designs currently in use, if catastrophically mismanaged, yes.

OTOH, some newer designs (eg LFTR) are walk-away safe: Nuclear explosions/meltdowns are physically impossible short of deliberate sabotage.

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#165

Those not up on Canadian politics may not see what a Canadian would see here. These are three politically conservative premiers (think US state governor) that are often aggressive in their policies; cuts to social programs, anti-environmental, no carbon tax. Knowing their policies it makes this out-of-the-blue project seem suspicious. I'm all for nuclear power especially if it's using CANDU reactors and thorium. But…

Or they have a better working relationships because they same similar goals. Conservatives aren't evil bogeymen who want to destroy the environment wholesale, they want to find a realistic solution to the problem. Add to the fact that Ontario has a history of failed green projects in wind power that have eaten billions of dollars. If these conservative premiers can throw some money together, cut some red tape and get…

I can't speak for the other provinces, but New Brunswick has a track record of throwing money at ridiculous energy projects that don't have a chance of working. For a recent example, this:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/joi-scientific-...

Summary: New Brunswick's energy utility NB Power (a crown corp) spent $12M to license a nonexistent tech that violates the second law of thermodynamics.

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#166
Support for nuclear power has become my acid-test. If somebody is serious about making urgent and effective change, fission has to be on the table.

Volume is the key to price - we need an internationally-vetted medium-sized design, with a supply chain that can crank out hundreds of complete "just add concrete" systems per year.

As well as improving up-front costs, a ubiquitous design makes training and maintenance easier. This should improve the operation of these systems safer and cheaper.

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#167

Support for nuclear power has become my acid-test. If somebody is serious about making urgent and effective change, fission has to be on the table. Volume is the key to price - we need an internationally-vetted medium-sized design, with a supply chain that can crank out hundreds of complete "just add concrete" systems per year. As well as improving up-front costs, a ubiquitous design makes training and maintenance ea…

Ditto. Many people I know are opposed to nuclear power for safety reasons (Chernobyl and Fukushima). But my understanding is that modern designs are an order of magnitude safer.

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#168
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fukushima was a good reminder that these “regulations” exist for good reason. As if the Japanese nuclear market was deregulated? Japan is a developed country that loves bureaucracy so don't be afraid, there is plenty of regulation in every sector here.

And Fukushima was built to the requirements of 1970's, not those of today (which are much stronger).

Yes - and I think it's precisely that increase in regulations that the poster which they were replying to was complaining about, given that the 1970s were the last time nuclear seemed affordable enough to build. I've even seen the odd nuclear proponent on here outright advocating that we return to 1970s-era nuclear regulations.

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very hard to imagine that a 74 years old technology remains complex enough to be available only to governements.

It's not. Nuclear fission reactors are built by large corporations like General Electric and Hitachi. If these companies wanted to they have the expertise to build a nuclear bomb but why would they unless their governments asked them to?

A huge number of 74 year old technologies are available for $0.75 direct from China.

The fact the nuclear reactor hasn't been miniaturized to the size of a coin and included in every $15 childrens toy to power lights is in large part because of public perception and government regulation rather than real safety/health concerns - there exist plenty of typical household materials that are more dangerous than the safest nuclear materials.

Re: Canadian provinces band together to develop nuclear reactor technology

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if the “green energy” people actually had that much power... In reality there are 2 forces that have stopped nuclear. NIMBYism. And terrible economics. But the green energy people are an easy punching bag for the nuclear advocates who are simply unwilling to face up to the reality of why nuclear keeps failing to take off.

The costs to built the plants dominates the price. Once built the actual operation and fueling costs are best in class https://www.expressnews.com/business/eagle-ford-energy/artic... The majority of the cost to build the plants are due to the crazy uncertainty about the design/build timeline every-time one is built. Given that conceptually they aren't any more complex than your average coal plant those costs are mass…

The trouble is that some markets will operate at a loss due to the glut in Natural Gas. See the northeast reactors.
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