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Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

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Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#111

Post by chii »

phkahler wrote: post #106
lsc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just saying, from where I stand (and I'm first to recognize I'm not an expert here) it sure looks like my country is trying to make things harder for China, and is paying the price of making things harder for workers in my own country. Even if the Chinese worker is hurt more than the American worker, the American worker is still being hurt, and as far as I can tell, all involved would be better off if we traded i…

>> it sure looks like my country is trying to make things harder for China, and is paying the price of making things harder for workers in my own country. Not sure if you've noticed, but manufacturing is starting to come back in the US. Industrial automation and skilled trades jobs are starting to be a thing again. These are solid middle class jobs that often dont require a degree. Its coming at the expense of some p…

> The US lost a LOT of capability over the last 20 years.

but in return, the US gained a lot of cheap goods. Cheap goods which then increased profits for businesses.

Unfortunately, the lower working class is unable to reap this reward.

If manufacturing and industry returned, it may mean that cost of goods would become more expensive, and it can slow the economic expansion of the US. Whether you see this as a good outcome or not depends on your personal ideals however.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#112

Post by latch »

account73466 wrote: post #98
latch wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying China can look forward to one of the highest qualities of life?

The trade war with Japan started in the mid 80ies and finished by the mid 90ies. The quality of life in Japan (as well as their GDP per capita) didn't improve since then. However, the quality of life in Japan was pretty good even before the 80ies.

Well, according to (1) life expectancy is up ~6 years, (2) infant mortality rate is down by ~2.5x, (3) homicides are down and (4) unemployment is down; all in the period of time that you mention.

Seems like objective improvements.

(1) https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?location...

(2) https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN?end=2018...

(3) https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?location...

(4) https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/unemployment-rate

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#113

Post by [deleted] »

lsc wrote: post #110
phkahler wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> it sure looks like my country is trying to make things harder for China, and is paying the price of making things harder for workers in my own country. Not sure if you've noticed, but manufacturing is starting to come back in the US. Industrial automation and skilled trades jobs are starting to be a thing again. These are solid middle class jobs that often dont require a degree. Its coming at the expense of some p…

>Not sure if you've noticed, but manufacturing is starting to come back in the US. Industrial automation and skilled trades jobs are starting to be a thing again. These are solid middle class jobs that often dont require a degree. Its coming at the expense of some pain in other areas, but it might be an overall positive. My understanding is that most of the really good paying manufacturing jobs aren't coming back; th…

[deleted]

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#114

Post by lsc »

phkahler wrote: post #106
lsc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just saying, from where I stand (and I'm first to recognize I'm not an expert here) it sure looks like my country is trying to make things harder for China, and is paying the price of making things harder for workers in my own country. Even if the Chinese worker is hurt more than the American worker, the American worker is still being hurt, and as far as I can tell, all involved would be better off if we traded i…

>> it sure looks like my country is trying to make things harder for China, and is paying the price of making things harder for workers in my own country. Not sure if you've noticed, but manufacturing is starting to come back in the US. Industrial automation and skilled trades jobs are starting to be a thing again. These are solid middle class jobs that often dont require a degree. Its coming at the expense of some p…

>The US lost a LOT of capability over the last 20 years

citation needed...

My understanding was that US manufacturing output has been steadily growing (even if employment has been falling) for all of that time.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#115

Post by throw754325 »

onepointsixC wrote: post #32

Articles whose content contradict their headlines are rather quite frustrating. The title is "Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips" But the article itself states: "While Huawei hasn’t stopped using American chips entirely, it has reduced its reliance on U.S. suppliers or eliminated U.S. chips in phones launched since May" And it's graph shows significant usage of US chips. I'm sure Huawei is tryi…

Not everyone in Japan or Taiwan are anti-China. From what I’ve seen, most big businesses that make money from China are often pro-China.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#117

Post by mcphage »

lsc wrote: post #110
phkahler wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> it sure looks like my country is trying to make things harder for China, and is paying the price of making things harder for workers in my own country. Not sure if you've noticed, but manufacturing is starting to come back in the US. Industrial automation and skilled trades jobs are starting to be a thing again. These are solid middle class jobs that often dont require a degree. Its coming at the expense of some p…

>Not sure if you've noticed, but manufacturing is starting to come back in the US. Industrial automation and skilled trades jobs are starting to be a thing again. These are solid middle class jobs that often dont require a degree. Its coming at the expense of some pain in other areas, but it might be an overall positive. My understanding is that most of the really good paying manufacturing jobs aren't coming back; th…

> people (especially in the USA) seem to think that manufacturing jobs are inherently better than other jobs

I don’t think they’re inherently better, but I do think the person who invents the next big thing will necessarily be a person who knows how to manufacture the current big thing, so the more people we have who know how to do that, the more likely we are to lead the next wave.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#118

Post by xvilka »

ausjke wrote: post #64

Huawei had to license synopsys/cadence/mentor to design their chip(which is using ARM core), if US really wants to play hardball Huawei's IC design can be killed nearly instantly once those CAD design software is forbidden. In the meantime I heard Huawei etc bought a few years' license right before the trade war, they're actually well prepared. Another way is to restrict chip manufacturing, Taiwan pretty much owns th…

It's just possible to invest in the open-source solutions then, like e.g. Yosys, SymbiFlow, KiCAD, etc

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#120

Post by Cyph0n »

monocasa wrote: post #107
Cyph0n wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope someone can correct me in this thread, but I recall hearing that a single-seat license can cost ~$50k per year. I would imagine that any company with a large number of ASIC engineers would love to reduce that overhead. Regardless, none of what you said disagrees with the point that EDA tools are complex and should therefore be protected from Chinese influence.

You always get screwed in niche B2B on a single seat license. There's no way the chip manufacturers are actually spending anywhere near that much. And they really aren't that complex. China has more than enough capability to reproduce them. I guess I'm not sure how to prove a negative here. What do you think is so special about EDA software that isn't fairly easy replicable? Other than the fab design rules, which if…

And I’m not sure why you still think that EDA tools are so simple. I guess we’re at an impasse, then.

Going back to my first comment: I would be extremely impressed if China is able to build a home-grown, state-of-the-art EDA toolchain. I also still think that the US should work to protect its existing advantage in this area.

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