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Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

wsj.com

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Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#31

Post by Cyph0n »

kyboren wrote: post #10

Even if those chips are completely devoid of American-origin IP cores, they almost certainly were designed with American-origin EDA software. I am not sure if such chips would be covered by existing export bans or if EDA software licensing agreements prohibit export of produced design files to countries subject to US export bans. If neither is the case, I expect either or both to change soon.

Excellent point. I would say it would be more impressive if China were to build its own EDA tools.

At this point, I think the US should start protecting its EDA companies from Chinese investors.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#32

Post by onepointsixC »

Articles whose content contradict their headlines are rather quite frustrating. The title is "Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips"

But the article itself states: "While Huawei hasn’t stopped using American chips entirely, it has reduced its reliance on U.S. suppliers or eliminated U.S. chips in phones launched since May"

And it's graph shows significant usage of US chips.

I'm sure Huawei is trying it's best to reduce its dependence on US chips, and thanks to access to chips from the EU, Taiwan, JP, it likely will succeed. But I can't help but be annoyed at the thought that Taiwan and Japan are relying on the US to protect them from the same CCP they're short sightedly profiting from.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#33

Post by onepointsixC »

papito wrote: post #30
periya wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve no dog in this race but I feel the selective outrage to Huawei and other chines tech companies hypocritical while America consumes more and more goods produced in China without batting an eye.

The problem also, is that tech companies in Russia and in China have no choice but to cooperate with the state and be part of espionage. This is not just about open and fair markets, yada yada. This is only "clean" in theory.

Huawei is special in that beyond even requiring to cooperate with the state, it has a corporate structure that is seen in State-Owned Entities and could be thought of as a CCP entity.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#34

Post by t-writescode »

sansnomme wrote: post #28
papito wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States is still better at technology, and Russia is better at espionage. Never underestimate the underdog. There was a massive article on the modern KGB under Putin in 2017(?), I think in the Atlantic. They basically managed to hack into some offline Pentagon systems by distributing infected USB drives around that location, through different outlets, in the hopes that an unsuspecting target will use a USB…

So basically the same trick as Stuxnet?

Wasn’t Stuxnet the other way around?

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#35

Post by barry-cotter »

rootsudo wrote: post #4

I checked out a Huawei store - they're the same asthetic as an apple store with a ton more useful tech then an ipod, macbook and imac. The phones were impressive and very affordable. We're talking $200-300 for 6gb ram devices, 128gb storage, etc. Google, Apple are right to be worried.

> I checked out a Huawei store - they're the same asthetic as an apple store with a ton more useful tech then an ipod, macbook and imac.

If you cannot tell the difference between the design aesthetic of an Apple store and a Huawei one I will heavily discount your taste as a guide to my I own. I’ve only been to Huawei stores in China, perhaps it’s different elsewhere. The tables are plastic fake wood. The stores smell bad when new, like cheap plastic or putting your nose right next to the benches in a just opened McDonald’s. I assume the same kind of care for aesthetics and design goes into their products so if you want a bad cheap copy of the surface level of good design go with Huawei.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#36

Post by lsc »

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #8

This is really impressive for Huawei. I do not mean to say that the trade war between China and the US is the same as the Cold War from before, but I have a fun tidbit to share. One of the more interesting theories I heard for why the US won the Cold War is because Russia struggled to develop IC technology. The Russians were masters of espionage, and I would even give them the edge in mechanical engineering, but the…

>And obviously it's not so great for the US.

There's a lot of confusion, I think, about how you "win" a trade war; as far as I can tell, autarchy is pretty bad for all involved; trade wars seem like a thing where everyone loses and the 'win' comes from winding down the trade war and trading again.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#37

Post by hydrox24 »

papito wrote: post #24
OnlineGladiator wrote: post #8

This is really impressive for Huawei. I do not mean to say that the trade war between China and the US is the same as the Cold War from before, but I have a fun tidbit to share. One of the more interesting theories I heard for why the US won the Cold War is because Russia struggled to develop IC technology. The Russians were masters of espionage, and I would even give them the edge in mechanical engineering, but the…

The United States is still better at technology, and Russia is better at espionage. Never underestimate the underdog. There was a massive article on the modern KGB under Putin in 2017(?), I think in the Atlantic. They basically managed to hack into some offline Pentagon systems by distributing infected USB drives around that location, through different outlets, in the hopes that an unsuspecting target will use a USB…

Is the article you are talking about "What Putin Really Wants" by Julia Ioffe[0]? It was published in January 2018. It doesn't have the USB key story you're talking about though.

[0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/01/putins-...

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#38

Post by dghughes »

rootsudo wrote: post #4

I checked out a Huawei store - they're the same asthetic as an apple store with a ton more useful tech then an ipod, macbook and imac. The phones were impressive and very affordable. We're talking $200-300 for 6gb ram devices, 128gb storage, etc. Google, Apple are right to be worried.

Xiaomi is even more impressive. A friend of mine from China showed me a video (2017 or 2018) of a man who ordered from a Xiaomi store. The video was of the man receiving the item he ordered 5 minutes after he ordered it! It was around midnight not sure of the day but 5 minutes to his door step from ordering it!

I asked my friend how is that possible so he showed me an image of a map of Xiaomi warehouses. I can't recall if he said there were dozens or hundreds per city.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#39

Post by bhouston »

I predicted this and it will continue: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20303157

I think we are in this awkward time where China is shifting from playing catch up to the US to taking more of a lead in some areas that are meaningful. This type of transition is awkward for all involved, but it was going to happen and these sanctions moved it forward a bit.

I am still surprised that the sanctions didn't have that much of a financial effect on China or at least us in the west didn't notice it very much.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#40

Post by ardit33 »

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #8

This is really impressive for Huawei. I do not mean to say that the trade war between China and the US is the same as the Cold War from before, but I have a fun tidbit to share. One of the more interesting theories I heard for why the US won the Cold War is because Russia struggled to develop IC technology. The Russians were masters of espionage, and I would even give them the edge in mechanical engineering, but the…

I think that electronics/computers by itself do not have much to do with with the fall of soviet union. USSR fell because:

1. its economic model was dysfunctional and a failure

2. Its moderate leaders (aka Gorbachev and his allies), decided to dismantle it, as they realized the model was a failure, and their only other option was to become extremely repressive, roll out tanks and kill people. (north korea is an example that given enough repression, even an extremely poor economy is not enough to dismantle a bad government.)

The soviet union was away behind the US (gdp per capita) in the 50s and early 60s, where computers were less developed and less important (to the general economy at least).

The soviet union failed, because centralized, collectivism, and having all the output owned by the state is a failure as a model.... as it goes against basic human nature.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Soviet_U...

Look at Spain's economy, how it is transformed after Franco died and the fascist regime is removed and the country opens up, gets less centralized.

Another analogy is Argentina. Where there was too much central planing, and state dictated economy. Compare it against Canada, (open and capitalistic), and you see that the system is the main culprit, and not necessary computers.

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