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Belarus’s Soviet Economy

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Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#11

Post by Swizec »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #6

The first sign of lousy journalism is the chart of poverty with the $5.5/day limit, like the cost of life is measured in dollars and it is the same across the board. No, it is not, in some places $1 is the equivalent of more than $10 in other countries.

Traditionally purchasing power parity dollars are used for comparisons across countries. Would be nice if journalists specified but you can pretty much assume that’s what their sources used

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity

Otherwise, as you say, these comparisons are meaningless.

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#12

Post by sparkling »

I had the chance to visit Belarus last year for a extended period. The capital, Minsk, is by far the cleanest and safest place i have seen anywhere.

Putting aside the human right issues, i think the president there has run the country quite well given the circumstances and the post-soviet situation he inherited. Mostly staying out of conflicts, keeping a balance between the big brother to the east and the western European countries, growing the economy (with a big IT sector). But - unlike e.g. Ukraine - all without the usual post-soviet hard system change that displaces workers from the old soviet state companies and social structures they relied on.

/edit: Jesus, why the downvotes?

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#13

Post by sparkling »

rayiner wrote: post #8

The former soviet states are a great natural experiment in economics. Countries that liberalized their economies, like Estonia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, and Latvia (the "mostly free" countries here: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking ) have grown much faster than countries that retained socialism and central planning, like Ukraine, Belarus, and Moldova. See: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/aug/17…

I would argue that in the case of Ukraine and Moldova, the main reason for their bad economy today is the large scale corruption that took place during post-soviet privatization in the 90s. This has lead to the extreme Oligarch power structure that we see today.

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#14

Post by classicsnoot »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #6

The first sign of lousy journalism is the chart of poverty with the $5.5/day limit, like the cost of life is measured in dollars and it is the same across the board. No, it is not, in some places $1 is the equivalent of more than $10 in other countries.

Always interesting how money data is usually offered up with no context; almost always a ploy to guide thought. In one of my case law classes, the professor had us read a Friend of the Court letter from the CEO of a company that specialized in the wiring for both consumer and industrial vehicles. The case centered on factories being offshored. The CEO was attempting to demonstrate how they had bent over backwards to keep their operations local and their pay high, and as an example he said how starting pay in ~1973 was $7 an hour. The teacher rolled nodded and smiled at the groans of dismay from my woke classmates, and soon followed a round of complaint and anger for the wealthy. Instead of getting pigeon holed as a right-wing shill, I googled the value of 7 1970 dollars in 2019, which was roughly $40. Imagine a world wherein low/no-skilled (by silicon valley view) labourers could start at $40 an hour working for a CEO that works to keep jobs in the country he owes his success to.

A bit of an aside, I know. But it is so frustrating how we've surrendered context for controversy so we can drum up rage and clicks instead of understanding they complicated reality. I hear Belarus is very clean and many of its citizens love their country, but that's probably propaganda.

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#15

Post by kragen »

hprotagonist wrote: post #9
AdrianB1 wrote: post #6

The first sign of lousy journalism is the chart of poverty with the $5.5/day limit, like the cost of life is measured in dollars and it is the same across the board. No, it is not, in some places $1 is the equivalent of more than $10 in other countries.

>The first sign of lousy journalism is the chart of poverty with the $5.5/day limit, like the cost of life is measured in dollars and it is the same across the board. No, it is not, in some places $1 is the equivalent of more than $10 in other countries. Assume that's true: $55 a day to support a family still sounds like shit to me, depending on how you enumerate that. for reference, that daily value multiplied out f…

You probably don't live with family members in a poor neighborhood if your rent is over US$200 a month per person.

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#16

Post by hprotagonist »

kragen wrote: post #15
hprotagonist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The first sign of lousy journalism is the chart of poverty with the $5.5/day limit, like the cost of life is measured in dollars and it is the same across the board. No, it is not, in some places $1 is the equivalent of more than $10 in other countries. Assume that's true: $55 a day to support a family still sounds like shit to me, depending on how you enumerate that. for reference, that daily value multiplied out f…

You probably don't live with family members in a poor neighborhood if your rent is over US$200 a month per person.

by the standards of my area, let’s go with “middle middle class”.

$19,800 a year ($55 a day) is, indeed, a fucking struggle to live and support a family on here. (urban area, new england)

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#17

Post by literallycancer »

rayiner wrote: post #8

The former soviet states are a great natural experiment in economics. Countries that liberalized their economies, like Estonia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, and Latvia (the "mostly free" countries here: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking ) have grown much faster than countries that retained socialism and central planning, like Ukraine, Belarus, and Moldova. See: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/aug/17…

Check out Slovenia for a counterexample. You can do either approach badly or well.

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#18

Post by zzzcpan »

rayiner wrote: post #8

The former soviet states are a great natural experiment in economics. Countries that liberalized their economies, like Estonia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, and Latvia (the "mostly free" countries here: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking ) have grown much faster than countries that retained socialism and central planning, like Ukraine, Belarus, and Moldova. See: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/aug/17…

Only Belarus from your list didn't "liberalize" its economy and retained central planning.

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#19

Post by sparkling »

nabla9 wrote: post #3

Technically Belarus and Russia form the Union State of Russia and Belarus. Some speculate that Putin might want to turn this paper union into reality before his term ends and become president of the union. He would avoid neatly term limits for Russian president. https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-rejects-putins-call-for-unific...

My guess: not going to happen. The vast majority of people in Belarus oppose a state union with Russia. Also the president (Lukaschenko) has nothing to gain from this. Surprisingly he has been very hesitant to give in to various Russian demands, openly criticizing Putin at world stages and in the media.

Re: Belarus’s Soviet Economy

#20

Post by sparkling »

barry-cotter wrote: post #4

The article talks about Belarus’ low levels of economic inequality, its Soviet past and the continuing heavy hand of the state and the KGB but it fails to connect them. I would be shocked if government employees don’t have a far higher standard of living than their pay packages would suggest. This is a less severe case of the problem with using Communist era statistics on income to track inequality as if they’re equi…

Agreed. Many government workers and state company employees in Belarus receive different forms on non-monetary compensation. Subsidized apartments etc., although these benefits things are slowly going away.
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