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Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

nature.com

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Re: Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

#11

Post by throwawayhhakdl »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #6

When I worked in Central Illinois recently, the home my wife and I rented bordered a field where young cows were raised. The small cows seemed to play some sort of game, running around each other like run after the leader. We thought they were playing. Later my wife found stuff on the web about cows being given beach balls to play with and with each other. Uncomfortable truth for people who selfishly help environment…

Pretty much all mammals engage in play. Play is practice for important life skills.

Eg tickling is learning to protect vulnerable spots on the body

Re: Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

#12

Post by dillonmckay »

djsumdog wrote: post #8

They're still reptiles though. They can't show signs of empathy or affection like many mammals. Most reptile training is pretty basic, and this experiment fits into those expectations: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NnwIlM6SmiQ

I know several human mammals that behave like reptiles.

Re: Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

#13

Post by lostmsu »

truckerbill wrote: post #4
lagilogi wrote: post #2

I keep getting surprised at the inability (refusal) of humans that we are not the only intelligent (and emotional) life form on this planet. It is extremely annoying.

I think it's a subconscious act of self-preservation. Truly accepting the sentience of animals would be conferring upon them a much more expansive (and expensive) set of rights, which in turn would make the our society seem all the more immoral through how we treat other species. Too much cognitive dissonance.

They are sentient, alright. But quite dumb. So we grow and eat them.

Re: Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

#14

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

sojmq wrote: post #3
lagilogi wrote: post #2

I keep getting surprised at the inability (refusal) of humans that we are not the only intelligent (and emotional) life form on this planet. It is extremely annoying.

Intelligence is a sliding scale and, until someone proves us wrong, we are the most intelligent life form on this planet. Emotional... well that's something else.

I'm more intelligent than someone with Downs Syndrome, but that doesn't mean their life is less valuable does it? Let me guess: they get a pass because they are human. That's what it comes down to really: things that are like me deserve rights and respect and things that aren't don't. That all humans happen to fit into the "like me" category is a relatively recent concept.

Re: Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

#15

Post by sojmq »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #14
sojmq wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is a sliding scale and, until someone proves us wrong, we are the most intelligent life form on this planet. Emotional... well that's something else.

I'm more intelligent than someone with Downs Syndrome, but that doesn't mean their life is less valuable does it? Let me guess: they get a pass because they are human. That's what it comes down to really: things that are like me deserve rights and respect and things that aren't don't. That all humans happen to fit into the "like me" category is a relatively recent concept.

>I'm more intelligent than someone with Downs Syndrome, but that doesn't mean their life is less valuable does it?

That depends on who you ask, actually.

Re: Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

#16

Post by edgyquant »

lostmsu wrote: post #13
truckerbill wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a subconscious act of self-preservation. Truly accepting the sentience of animals would be conferring upon them a much more expansive (and expensive) set of rights, which in turn would make the our society seem all the more immoral through how we treat other species. Too much cognitive dissonance.

They are sentient, alright. But quite dumb. So we grow and eat them.

Define: dumb.

Re: Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

#17

Post by username90 »

edgyquant wrote: post #16
lostmsu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are sentient, alright. But quite dumb. So we grow and eat them.

Define: dumb.

We have been able to teach them to do trivial tricks on demand, but we can't teach them to be productive members of society. We haven't even been able to teach a single other species to do factory work, which is the simplest work imaginable for humans.

Re: Giant tortoises show surprising cognitive powers

#20

Post by username90 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #14
sojmq wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is a sliding scale and, until someone proves us wrong, we are the most intelligent life form on this planet. Emotional... well that's something else.

I'm more intelligent than someone with Downs Syndrome, but that doesn't mean their life is less valuable does it? Let me guess: they get a pass because they are human. That's what it comes down to really: things that are like me deserve rights and respect and things that aren't don't. That all humans happen to fit into the "like me" category is a relatively recent concept.

They get a pass because it makes our rules simpler and they are so few. You'd see us quickly value their lives less if there were billions of people with Downs Syndrome, but currently they aren't a problem so it is fine.
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