Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious • Hacker News Board

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#31

Post by protomyth » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:03 AM UTC

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #3

On the flipside, I was in a Calculus lecture at uni and turned to the girl next to me who was crying. I asked her if she was ok, and she said she didn't understand why she had to sit in the lecture learning Laplace transforms when she "only wanted to be a primary school teacher". From the sounds of it, it was a prerequisite? Edit: Oh :) I just worked it out - I was taught to fold the subtraction and carry right in on…

My response to primary school teachers is that they need some mastery of math so they are not anxious about the subject in front of students. Because if the girls in her class lookup to her and she is anxious, nervous, or dismissive of math then those girls will not go into any STEM field. If you want more females in STEM careers then it starts with elementary school teachers loving STEM.

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#32

Post by dboreham » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:03 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #19

geomark wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why long division would be a mystery. It's just repeated subtraction - you are finding how many times you can subtract the divisor from the dividend, in a systematic way.

Because the algorithm is so astronomically complicated that people can’t see any pattern or reason in it anymore and it becomes an opaque mystery. I have a PhD in computer science but I cannot understand long division.

>I have a PhD in computer science but I cannot understand long division

I think you're trolling us a little: you could sit down with pencil and paper and think about how it must work and 20 minutes later you'd understand it, surely.

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#33

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:06 AM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #32

chrisseaton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the algorithm is so astronomically complicated that people can’t see any pattern or reason in it anymore and it becomes an opaque mystery. I have a PhD in computer science but I cannot understand long division.

>I have a PhD in computer science but I cannot understand long division I think you're trolling us a little: you could sit down with pencil and paper and think about how it must work and 20 minutes later you'd understand it, surely.

I have no intuitive understanding or mental model of the algorithm. I could follow the instructions if they’re written in front of me but I have never managed to understand why they work or to memorise them.

I have a similar mental block for standard deviation - I always seem to have another ‘but why?’ question that eventually people answer with ‘because!’ and then we’ve both given up.

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#34

Post by LegitGandalf » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

The worst part is that female students are more likely to notice the teacher's fearful body language, so you get this never ending cycle of girls developing fear of math, going into teaching and passing the fear on to the next generation.

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#35

Post by pjscott » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #29

pjscott wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost never explained with such lucidity. If you find a hundred people who can perform long division, I would be surprised if twenty of them have any idea how it works.

You're never going to find 100 people who can perform long division.

Sure you can! Just look at a typical fifth- or sixth-grade classroom. Most of them can perform long division, briefly, before the test. They may even remember it for several days after the test.

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#36

Post by dboreham » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:09 AM UTC

novok wrote: post #4

_bxg1 wrote: post #2

I still don't know why long-division works. I don't think I even remember how to do it as an adult. I've always had a very intuitive grasp of math, which meant I excelled at solving things in my head but struggled with (and resented) having to show my work in the arbitrary algorithms we were taught. I understand division despite my education. They really should try to come up with algorithms that are more intuitively…

Division is a repeated subtraction operation, and the long division algorithm is just a nice way to lay it out. Multiplication = repeated addition Addition = a form of counting

I've never thought of division as repeated subtraction: it's the inverse of multiplication, or literal division as in I have a pile of beans that I divide equally between N piles.

I don't think you're wrong, just seems an odd way to think about it, and fails to account for any remainder.

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#37

Post by symplee » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:10 AM UTC

A couple examples from the article:

>> A colleague told me of vainly trying to persuade a college student that .015 was less than .05; the student insisted “but 15 is more than five.”

>> To [students], [the equals sign] doesn’t signify equality, but instead means “put the answer here.” Imagine their confusion when, in algebra, they first encounter problems with numbers on both sides of the equal sign.

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#38

Post by aaron695 » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:13 AM UTC

This is because of a lack of men in elementary schools, interesting they skipped the reason.

But this is not solvable in the West I guess, it will continue to decrease.

Need to offshore it. IE. Produce good external lesson plans that are free to use.

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#39

Post by dboreham » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:13 AM UTC

elchief wrote: post #22

My ex taught grade 6 geography. Is a principal now. Thought the seasons were due to earth tilting back and forth. Didn't get that the tilt was the same, but the position around the sun was different

Just a reference frame change right?

Re: Many elementary teachers don’t understand math, and it makes them anxious

#40

Post by QuarterReptile » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:14 AM UTC

BubRoss wrote: post #24

elchief wrote: post #22

My ex taught grade 6 geography. Is a principal now. Thought the seasons were due to earth tilting back and forth. Didn't get that the tilt was the same, but the position around the sun was different

That doesn't seem so bad in the grand scheme of things.

The particular non-fact is unremarkable, but the lack of inquisitiveness is off-putting. It falls down after not so many "why"s. You'd like to imagine a greater love of discovery in the people who are (hopefully) shepherding dozens of kids through their own discoveries, day in and day out.