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Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

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Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#101
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it addresses the post. It's certainly true that Stack Overflow is the best place to get answers to programming questions and I won't dispute that. Here, though, is what I think the problem is. I think it mirrors the OP's problem. Stack Overflow became and is the best place to get answers to programming problems because of the community it has been able to build. Ther…

Exactly. The OP's point is that it's hard to get over the initial rep hurdle so that you can participate. This prompts the idea: is there some sort of way that new users could quickly and reliably gain a minimum amount of rep by doing a bit of maintenance on the site? Say, flagging spam or suggesting correction which must be approved by someone with lots of rep? If this is possible, why don't more people know about i…

Yes. Ask questions. Asking questions gets you rep (and quite quickly too, if your questions are voted up).

Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#102

Is rep important enough to warrant a blog post complaining you cant get enough? Man, money is too hard to get. I wish this damned CEO wasn't getting a 600k salary + bonuses. Blog post upcoming.

He's not complaining that he can't get enough rep, he's complaining that he can't contribute without it.

Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#103
post #91

What a terrible article. I'm sorry for the rant, but this really pissed me off. Admittedly, I don't participate in StackOverflow that much right now - I sort of go through an ebb and flow where I get really gung ho about answering questions, then it sort of wears off for a while - but this guy sounds a lot like he wants to game the system, and is only in it for the points. I'm not trying to put words in Jeff/Joel's m…

xatax, I just recognized your name from an incorrect answer you provided on StackOverflow that nevertheless was accepted ( http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4435906/print-when-textar... ). You made assumptions and then adopted your self-confessed strategy of “quickly add[ing] an answer which …gives the asker enough to finish the answer on their own,” but failed to understand the problem inherent in the question. You…

Well then why don't you provide the correct answer with the right assumptions?

Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#104
post #89
post #61

Let me add some perspective as a relatively highly ranked user (cletus) on SO. I've seen this kind of post before and frankly it's annoying. The typical template is "I tried to answer 2 questions and didn't get 1000 points so it sucks" or some variation revolving around faster answerers or whatever. Rather than being a problem, SO is a superb solution for the person asking the question because they do get fast answer…

I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it addresses the post. It's certainly true that Stack Overflow is the best place to get answers to programming questions and I won't dispute that. Here, though, is what I think the problem is. I think it mirrors the OP's problem. Stack Overflow became and is the best place to get answers to programming problems because of the community it has been able to build. Ther…

Perhaps my own experience is atypical but I'll elaborate anyway.

SO had been out of beta for a 4-5 months before I really started answering questions. I had dipped my toe in the water a couple of times prior with varying results: one particularly successful answer, several unsuccessful answers.

Granted, now is not a few months after launch. Questions tend to be more esoteric, there are more question snipers/campers and so on. But IMHO the same principles still apply: be quick and be concise. You can expand a concise answer with a longer answer but you can't usually ignore the concise answer.

Now some consider that a bad thing. Me? I think it trains people how to give good answers and not just for SO but in their work life in general: front load the information people ask for and then expand on it.

As for getting the initial rep: getting rep to vote to close and so on takes awhile but do you need that? The more annoying levels are when you can't comment or upvote. That you can get fairly quickly just by asking 1-2 questions if not answering them.

My own experience is that newbies who ask good questions or give good answers I (and others) will upvote them simply to get them past these points (to about 50 rep).

As for the barrier to entry and community aspects, there are issues here. In fact, I raised this very issue 1.5 years ago [1] and I still have mixed feelings about it.

Ultimately though, an abundance of answerers I don't consider to be a problem. With attrition, others will replace them. I'd only worry if no one is answering.

I don't see the value of SO is being in the community per se. Not in the same sense that the value in Quora (IMHO) is entirely in the community (which presents real long-term risks).

What SO did well, which obviously affected the community that grew around it (and Joel has spoken about this), is that it made bad behaviour hard, something people would actually complain about. Example: a common complaint is that SO makes discussion hard. Well, that's actually kinda the point. Discussions are 99% noise in the context of Q&A. SO allows good answers to float to the top with the voting mechanism.

Remember: rep isn't an end, it's a means to an end. It's also a way of solving problems that would otherwise require human intervention. For example, the minimum rep for editing answers. This isn't a de facto claim that a certain rep threshold means you know what you're talking about. It's simply a way of expressing the site's trust in you, as a contributor, rather than attesting to the accuracy of your technical knowledge.

Better that than Wikipedia-style revert wars that require constant mod attention.

SO is an excellent system for askers and answerers of programming questions. I'm simply unconvinced that this models translates well to other areas (as per the StackExchange model for other sites).

[1] http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/1483/are-power-users...

Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#105
post #85
post #76

Am I the only person that doesn't get this whole Stack / Quora thing? Why does anyone care about points? Don't get me wrong - I love the fact that there's a place I can go to ask a question and get it answered by knowledgeable people. But what does that have to do with points? If people want to help each other, then great. If not, then don't. Newsgroups used to fill this role quite well without points, but came with…

The voting is a crude proxy for correctness. I say crude because sometimes the first few answers get way too many votes for simply being the first but over time the correct answers float to the top.

[deleted]

Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#106

Personally I haven't gotten involved in SO precisely because of this. I don't feel the prize is worth the amount of effort that I'd put into playing the game. However, plenty of people do feel that it's worth it, and certainly the barrier to entry keeps out (some of) the griefers that inevitably show up in online communities.

The prize is the satisfaction you get from helping other people with a great answer. The reputation is window dressing. If you think of rep as the end goal, then of course it is not worth your time. If you enjoy answering people's questions, then it probably is worth your time.

There are a lot of social things to do on the web, and probably I should be doing less of them and more real work

For me, participating on SO is like the Weather Channel. I've got another other things I could be doing rather than waiting for "Weather on the 8s" to come around.

Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#107
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

xatax, I just recognized your name from an incorrect answer you provided on StackOverflow that nevertheless was accepted ( http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4435906/print-when-textar... ). You made assumptions and then adopted your self-confessed strategy of “quickly add[ing] an answer which …gives the asker enough to finish the answer on their own,” but failed to understand the problem inherent in the question. You…

Well then why don't you provide the correct answer with the right assumptions?

I did, you should have checked. I even made a public test-case to illustrate why naïve solutions don’t work: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/105727/web/print_textarea.html Edited to avoid sarcasm

Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#109
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then why don't you provide the correct answer with the right assumptions?

I did, you should have checked. I even made a public test-case to illustrate why naïve solutions don’t work: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/105727/web/print_textarea.html Edited to avoid sarcasm

I downvoted you for being sarcastic, and because I was discouraged by the tone you used in this SO comment:

  Gordon, you downvoted my answer and left a misleading comment because you
  assumed that a user wouldn't edit the textarea? For shame. Your solution is
  not "pure CSS" but rather uses PHP to duplicate a textarea and then
  hopes that the user doesn't its content before printing.
Please chill out, dude. There is absolutely no reason for a discussion involving Javascript and print stylesheets to require usage of the term "For shame."

To phrase it differently: Try to avoid being the guy from this Xkcd. http://xkcd.com/386/

Re: Why Stack Overflow Sucks and Participating There is Impossible

#110
post #48

There is nothing sucky about the stackexchange sites. They are designed to be useful and growing repositories of frequent question and answers. The whole rep/voting thing is just a gaming layer on top to make the process of participation a little more fun but if you just focus on the gaming aspect and take it way too seriously like this guy then you miss out completely.

While it may seem like just a gaming aspect, there are a lot of benefits as you gain more reputation on the site. Unlike many "points systems", SE actually allows you to become essentially a moderator of the site as you gain reputation. Once you've hit a certain mark you can edit, close, delete, etc. I think it's brilliant.
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