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Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

economist.com

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Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#11

Post by coldtea »

justicezyx wrote: post #8

This is one of the biggest human right violations on earth, dwarfs anything that westerners are aware of, yet this is seldom getting much attentions... These people literally put their life into the modernization of the nation. Some of them died young, mostly from poor safety measures in their work environment. A lot of them suffer chronicle diseases that make their life a living torture. Yet even more of them wait t…

>* These people literally put their life into the modernization of the nation. Some of them died young, mostly from poor safety measures in their work environment. A lot of them suffer chronicle diseases that make their life a living torture. Yet even more of them wait to see the grim prospect of a miserable senior life. We are not even starting mentioning the tragic life of these events on their offsprings!*

Worker fates were the same or worse when the Western nations came from the industrial age into the 20th century...

It took until the 1930s with New Deal and unionising to get acceptable working conditions for factory and most service sector workers...

Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#12

Post by tempguy9999 »

netsharc wrote: post #7
abledon wrote: post #6

when my relatives complain about how everything is made in china (feeling threatened ?) I like to remind them that most of the actual people living their are having a very hard time compared to their cushy western lifestyle.

Funny how slavery is pretty abstract for the western consumer nowadays, who don't see through several layers of capitalism of "best bang for your bucks". If the factory in China has to increase its minimum wage due to laws, well, "I want to build a phone factory, I want these shareholder-profit-maximizing conditions for the workers, any takers?" (Hah, even Amazon was doing this in the US with its whole HQ2 saga)

I can't see any reason to downvote this, I don't think it's at all wrong.

Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#13

Post by agumonkey »

abledon wrote: post #6

when my relatives complain about how everything is made in china (feeling threatened ?) I like to remind them that most of the actual people living their are having a very hard time compared to their cushy western lifestyle.

and then complain about not having local products but keep buying cheapest chinese made things

Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#14

Post by merpnderp »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #12
netsharc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how slavery is pretty abstract for the western consumer nowadays, who don't see through several layers of capitalism of "best bang for your bucks". If the factory in China has to increase its minimum wage due to laws, well, "I want to build a phone factory, I want these shareholder-profit-maximizing conditions for the workers, any takers?" (Hah, even Amazon was doing this in the US with its whole HQ2 saga)

I can't see any reason to downvote this, I don't think it's at all wrong.

China's pivot from Marxism to Capitalism has brought more people out of abject poverty, in a miraculously short period, than any other change in history. It isn't perfect, but there's no other viable option.

Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#15

Post by guywithahat »

abledon wrote: post #6

when my relatives complain about how everything is made in china (feeling threatened ?) I like to remind them that most of the actual people living their are having a very hard time compared to their cushy western lifestyle.

I think the issue is you used to not have to compete with China on wages, and there was less regulation so things were cheaper. So you’d start of making low wages (like $10 an hour) and by the time you had a family you’d be making 40k+ a year, and you could lead a pretty nice life like that (and you still can in some states)

Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#16

Post by justicezyx »

coldtea wrote: post #11
justicezyx wrote: post #8

This is one of the biggest human right violations on earth, dwarfs anything that westerners are aware of, yet this is seldom getting much attentions... These people literally put their life into the modernization of the nation. Some of them died young, mostly from poor safety measures in their work environment. A lot of them suffer chronicle diseases that make their life a living torture. Yet even more of them wait t…

>* These people literally put their life into the modernization of the nation. Some of them died young, mostly from poor safety measures in their work environment. A lot of them suffer chronicle diseases that make their life a living torture. Yet even more of them wait to see the grim prospect of a miserable senior life. We are not even starting mentioning the tragic life of these events on their offsprings!* Worker…

The typical "history repeats itself, so we do not need to care about it"...

Good luck with this, when the fate of human beings require unified effort.

Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#18

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

merpnderp wrote: post #14
tempguy9999 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see any reason to downvote this, I don't think it's at all wrong.

China's pivot from Marxism to Capitalism has brought more people out of abject poverty, in a miraculously short period, than any other change in history. It isn't perfect, but there's no other viable option.

Roman pivot from local city state with domain to a expanding empire has objectively made the life of many barbarians better. What have the romans ever doen for thus?

Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#19

Post by tempguy9999 »

merpnderp wrote: post #14
tempguy9999 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see any reason to downvote this, I don't think it's at all wrong.

China's pivot from Marxism to Capitalism has brought more people out of abject poverty, in a miraculously short period, than any other change in history. It isn't perfect, but there's no other viable option.

The CCP controls the markets. It's not a free market and thus not capitalism (I am ready to be corrected on any of these points).

But that's an aside, the point is that exploitative labour practices come about because of what @netsharc says. You've sidestepped his and my point.

If it was you or your children in a sweatshop you mightn't be so gung-ho.

Re: Migrants who made China an industrial giant face a grim retirement

#20

Post by coldtea »

justicezyx wrote: post #16
coldtea wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* These people literally put their life into the modernization of the nation. Some of them died young, mostly from poor safety measures in their work environment. A lot of them suffer chronicle diseases that make their life a living torture. Yet even more of them wait to see the grim prospect of a miserable senior life. We are not even starting mentioning the tragic life of these events on their offsprings!* Worker…

The typical "history repeats itself, so we do not need to care about it"... Good luck with this, when the fate of human beings require unified effort.

>The typical "history repeats itself, so we do not need to care about it"...

I'd like to think of it more as the typical:

"Yeah, our country did those things back in the day to develop/get rich, but yours should not do them. History shouldn't repeat itself in your country's case, only my country should be allowed that privilege"

Countries must pass through certain stages to develop.

Countries that were once at stage 0 and now, after centuries , managed to be on stage N, are hypocritical (if not self-serving and used for diplomatic/political reasons) to point fingers at countries earlier in those stages. Especially if those countries are much older and larger (and thus slower to change) and despite that go through those stages much faster...

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