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Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

reuters.com

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Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#121

Post by mclightning »

qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

>> Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety.

That's a pretty reductivist way to define civilisation...

From this definition; It sounds to me like there is a certain character/type of people who are redeemed as Civilized based on Govt definition. Thus justifies heavy control over society.

"As a liberal", wouldn't it be more favourable to design the system around liberty of choice for the individual rather than control of a central power?

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#122

Post by raxxorrax »

flomble wrote: post #114
qwtel wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody cares about freedom of the press because they are well paid and comfortable that's because freedom of press and similar rights are a uniquely western phenomenon that are --- despite what droves of its proponents will tell you --- derived from christian values that didn't and don't exist anywhere else. Many in the broader region don't care about freedom of press, while also being poorly paid and uncomfortable…

> freedom of press and similar rights are a uniquely western phenomenon that are ... derived from christian values This is incorrect. Europe is quite unique in that since the advent of Christianity there has always existed a church separate from the state acting as a counterbalance thereto, and offering an alternative foundation of moral authority. Despite this, brutal suppression of all dissent and criticism of the…

To be fair that was the Roman Catholic church, which also procecuted the former Christian communities all over Europe. It is mostly this consolidated form that supported suppression.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#123

Post by v7p1Qbt1im »

irjustin wrote: post #99
RavlaAlvar wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely asking. Do most of the population believe Singapore’s authoritarian government would stay benevolent??

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

The „watchful eye“ part sounds disturbing. I‘ve been to Singapore and it‘s a very impressive place.

But it‘s also very sterile imo. Sure there is awesome street food and culture in general to a degree. But i kept missing the borderline stuff there. I like to live in a place where people are allowed to make mistakes, even criminal ones in some cases, and not have their live be over Immediately. That sounds weird to some i suppose.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#124

Post by bufferout »

bkor wrote: post #120
irjustin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

> Safest in the world, hands down. Any figures to back that up? It's said that nothing gets stolen in Singapore, until you speak to Singaporeans. Bikes still get stolen for instance. The city seems super clean, but mainly because low paid workers clean the city really often. If a Singaporean visits another country you'll notice that they're used to the city being cleaned often, not so much that they're behaving diffe…

Keeping the elderly working is not an absolute negative.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#125

Post by sumedh »

xuki wrote: post #85
ShorsHammer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say that Singapore's elections are faked? And the results invalid?

No, it's certainly not faked. There is no viable oppositions, the reason for this is a whole different story. Many of my Singaporean friends would GLADLY vote for an opposition party to keep PAP in check but they simply don't match the quality of PAP's candidates.

> they simply don't match the quality of PAP's candidates.

Is that by design?

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#126

Post by pbhjpbhj »

trickstra wrote: post #50
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…

One of the consequences might be that if you say a lie about someone else, they will sue you for libel. And in an ideal world, the lie would be discovered and you'd lose that suit. So asking a user on facebook to remove a lie, then asking facebook to remove that lie, sounds like a fair thing to do in a "real" democracy. > Governments should not have the power to silence their critics I agree completely, but we are ta…

Wouldn't placing a notice on content deemed fake be more like what we do with slander/libel. Court reports create a record of the lie which aids the public in deciding who to deal with and creates an additional motivation not to lie. It also allows a person to disagree with the judgement.

"This content has been determined to be fake: [evidence or link to evidence]"

That would be my preference.

So

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#127

Post by bkor »

archibaldJ wrote: post #74
ulfw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see people in the west often lauding Singapore for that and vilifying China if they do the same.

I've lived in Singapore for more than half of my life and met expats there from all walks of life. And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with western values, both in terms of the cultures and the social-political aspects of many things (other than weed and cocaine, etc; but you can certainly get your hand on some lsd if you know the right contacts). Anyway the point is that Singapore is very westerni…

> And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with western values [..] > I've not known a self-declared Left that could stand staying in Singapore for more than a week

Weird combination of statements. It gives the impression (though you probably mean something different that anyone not liking it is 1) "left" 2) not part of Western values

Left vs right is pretty useless distinction anyway. Someone who is considered "left" in US is IMO very much "right" in Netherlands. Plus some parties on the right or left differ greatly on how they see things. E.g. not every "left" party will align with what someone agrees with; else there wouldn't be multiple parties. Those parties differ more greatly than "a little bit left" vs "a lot left" (with some exceptions).

Further, I reject the notion that someone who is left wouldn't be able to stand staying in Singapore for more than a week. Though biggest problem is that after a week there's not much to do (for anyone reading along, all the Singaporean colleagues completely agree with me on this!) :-P

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#128

Post by arvinsim »

robomartin wrote: post #47

I have a lateral question about Singapore. Everything I have read about the country says that it is one of the best in the world for business and, in particular, startups. Yet some of the commentary here leads me to believe there's a dark side to the reality of this nation. Anyone with first hand knowledge care to comment on this? I am puzzled because it so happens we might have to do some business in Singapore and a…

Lots of startups in SG yet the way the system runs seem to be stifling innovation.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#129

Post by archibaldJ »

archibaldJ wrote: post #74
ulfw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see people in the west often lauding Singapore for that and vilifying China if they do the same.

I've lived in Singapore for more than half of my life and met expats there from all walks of life. And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with western values, both in terms of the cultures and the social-political aspects of many things (other than weed and cocaine, etc; but you can certainly get your hand on some lsd if you know the right contacts). Anyway the point is that Singapore is very westerni…

I love how this comment received a few upvotes in the beginning and there came the downvotes. HN as I've known it have certainly changed to be more reddit-like now.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#130

Post by dang »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #111
paulmooreparks wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been living and working in Singapore for two years now, coming from the United States. I'm a libertarian who finds politics and economics in the US to be horribly broken, and while in principle I don't agree with authoritarianism or planned economies, I'm also of the mind that one cannot apply a single concept of government to every culture. That's a colonial mindset. America's liberal tradition came from many,…

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We've asked you several times to stop breaking the site guidelines. If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this?
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