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Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

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Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the same party has won every single election since 1959, you have to wonder if they mean anything.

If a population vote the same party in every election cycle, does that mean the elections are pointless? Or are you suggesting the elections are marred by fraud? It has to be one of these two.

There is a third option, that the election system is designed to allow only the desired result. For example, only two of the five possible Singapore Presidential elections have been contested.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#32

Just so you know, this law doesn't apply the govt themselves. In 2018, a historian criticized this and said that the govt broke this fake news law and that the law should apply to govt too. However, govt said that the historian's evidence were incorrect even though no other historians dispute this fact. See: https://medium.com/@pj_85357/follow-up-submission-to-the-sel...

did he go to court and a judge said the evidence were incorrect?

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#34

Is there a factsheet or written definition for what actually constitutes 'Fake News' or is it "news I don't agree with?" There were perfectly reasonable legal words available to describe fraudulent, false or factually inaccurate statements, it's sad that 'Fake News' has caught on so well as though it is a meaningful term.

> the law, known as the Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act (POFMA)

Singapore is an english-speaking country, they used valid words to describe "fake news"

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#36
Reserving any judgment on this specific action, I just note that it's all consistent with how Singapore has treated this in the past. From Lee Kuan Yew's autobiography:

> My early experiences in Singapore and Malaya shaped my views about the claim of the press to be the defender of truth and freedom of speech. The freedom of the press was the freedom of its owners to advance their personal and class interests.

(There follow a few examples of rich individuals forming their own newspapers, to push their preferred politics.)

> In the 1980s, Western-owned English-language publications became a significant presence in Singapore. [...] We have always banned communist publications; no Western media or media organization has ever protested against this. We have not banned any Western newspaper or journal. Yet they frequently refused us the right of reply when they misrepresented us. We decided in 1986 to enact a law to restrict the sale or distribution of foreign publications that had engaged in the domestic politics of Singapore. One of our tests for "engaging in the politics of Singapore" was whether, after they had misreported or slanted stories on Singapore, they refused to publish our reply. We did not ban them, only restricted the number of copies they sold. [...] This would reduce their advertising revenue but did not stop their reports from circulating. They could not accuse us of being afraid to have their reports read.

> Singapore's domestic debate is a matter for Singaporeans. [...] We cannot allow [American journalists] to assume a role in Singapore that the American media play in America. [...] Indeed, America's Federal Communications Commission regulations bar foreigners from owning more than 25 percent of a TV or radio station. Only Americans can control a business which influences opinion in America.

> Advanced in information technology, satellite broadcasting, and the Internet will enable Western media networks to saturate our domestic audience with their reports and views. Countries that try to block the use of IT will lose. We have to learn to manage this relentless flood of information so that the Singapore government's point of view is not smothered by the foreign media.

The memoir is incredibly prescient. Many of the policy debates held in Singapore in the 1980s mirror those held in America over the last three years, as we start to face a tiny fraction of the threats they dealt with daily. I wouldn't be surprised if the very same people who flaunt moral superiority over places like Singapore end up being the ones who take us in the exact same direction.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#38
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just spelling it out because "people should be allowed to tell lies" is terrible marketing: There is no way to deduce the truth using the tools in the Government's toolbox or in public discourse. The more questions systems like the courts have to answer the more mistakes they will make; they aren't for discerning the truth instead only checking that standards of evidence have been met. There are a bunch of things…

What are false things that have strong evidence behind them?

There are the pre- and post-execution exonerations [0] which are some good striking examples with human interest stories behind them. But really pick up a stack of court records proved to a substantial-evidence standard but not a beyond-a-reasonable-doubt standard. Bunch of those are going to be situations where a it looks like something happened but actually a different thing happened.

There simply isn't a formal way of determining truth. If there was it'd be in use somewhere. All the processes that work best are ones where decisions are made in a fair process where evidence is invoked, but there isn't a reasonable argument that evidence always paints an accurate picture. It simply can't. There is no process that gets all the decisions right; evidence based decision making is not enough.

If it turned out courts correctly identified the truth 80% of the time when working through cases I'd be impressed. And that is where we have formal experts doing their best with controls against bias and the potential to have independent judges making decisions. The best legal standard we have is 'beyond reasonable doubt' - I've been in plenty of situations where that standard would accept a bad conclusion; eminently reasonable people who try to make good, thoroughly considered decisions still make mistakes. Reasonable people were once extremely sexist and racist; for an easy example. For something as wide-ranging as political truth there is simply no hope.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_i...

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#39

Just so you know, this law doesn't apply the govt themselves. In 2018, a historian criticized this and said that the govt broke this fake news law and that the law should apply to govt too. However, govt said that the historian's evidence were incorrect even though no other historians dispute this fact. See: https://medium.com/@pj_85357/follow-up-submission-to-the-sel...

did he go to court and a judge said the evidence were incorrect?

one does not simply sue a military dictatorship

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#40
post #37

Journalists need to look at alternative platforms, such as those under the control of their own organization. The Fediverse is a good place to be.

I recently joined WikiTribune which is supposed to solve just that. It's still invite-only with a huge mailing list but you can get in early if you donate (I donate).

If anyone wants an invite email me at username @ gmail and I will try to send everyone invites (I have like 200) when I get back from JSConf.

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