This is how fake democracy works.
Would you say that Singapore's elections are faked? And the results invalid?
When the same party has won every single election since 1959, you have to wonder if they mean anything.
Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
21–30 of 251 posts
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy?
> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…
Isn't there a litany of examples where the government has the power to decide and enforce truthfulness? Stuff like health claims and protected designation of origin.
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…
Definitely the government shouldn’t be able to stop criticisms, but for outright lies, wouldn’t libel or slander laws apply?
Uncoincidentally, members of the PAP have a reputation for being rather aggressive in suing people for libel.
I think somewhere you have to accept that certain statements aren't true or false. What has changed recently is the willingness of people to view the statements of others as "lying" as opposed to having a different opinion. Unf, when the plaintiff is the government this becomes even more tricky (and I think a reasonable person would conclude that the PAP have used the legal system to supress criticism...I love Singapore, I love LKY...but it is what it is).
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…
Isn't there a litany of examples where the government has the power to decide and enforce truthfulness? Stuff like health claims and protected designation of origin.
> health claims, protected designation of origin, and public schooling
None of these are like the allegations of election tampering the article discusses, which is squarely in the realm of First Amendment-protected speech in America.
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…
And just spelling it out because "people should be allowed to tell lies" is terrible marketing: There is no way to deduce the truth using the tools in the Government's toolbox or in public discourse. The more questions systems like the courts have to answer the more mistakes they will make; they aren't for discerning the truth instead only checking that standards of evidence have been met. There are a bunch of things…
What are false things that have strong evidence behind them?
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#26It's unconscionable to subordinate US companies and Australian citizens to a feckless foreign power. If Singapore why not every other nation on earth?
>If Singapore why not every other nation on earth? What's likely going to happen is that Facebook complies, but only for visitors from Singapore.
What about blacking out the text of the post with redaction bars, and adding a link to a copy of the government's order? Obey the letter of the law, yet call out the official oppression to the reader in a way that maximizes the ugliness.
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you say that Singapore's elections are faked? And the results invalid?
When the same party has won every single election since 1959, you have to wonder if they mean anything.
If a population vote the same party in every election cycle, does that mean the elections are pointless?
Or are you suggesting the elections are marred by fraud? It has to be one of these two.
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
And just spelling it out because "people should be allowed to tell lies" is terrible marketing: There is no way to deduce the truth using the tools in the Government's toolbox or in public discourse. The more questions systems like the courts have to answer the more mistakes they will make; they aren't for discerning the truth instead only checking that standards of evidence have been met. There are a bunch of things…
What are false things that have strong evidence behind them?
> What are false things that have strong evidence behind them?
Eh, the history of science is littered with these. From early theories of vision involving beams cast out by our eyes [1] to phlogiston [2].
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emission_theory_(vision)
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#29Just so you know, this law doesn't apply the govt themselves.
In 2018, a historian criticized this and said that the govt broke this fake news law and that the law should apply to govt too.
However, govt said that the historian's evidence were incorrect even though no other historians dispute this fact.
See: https://medium.com/@pj_85357/follow-up-submission-to-the-sel...
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
When the same party has won every single election since 1959, you have to wonder if they mean anything.
If a population vote the same party in every election cycle, does that mean the elections are pointless? Or are you suggesting the elections are marred by fraud? It has to be one of these two.
It is possible that SK PAP politicians are just damn good at their jobs -- The modern history of Singapore does seem to suggest this.
But it's also possible that no viable oppositions are allowed to organize effectively enough to compete fairly.
My personal yardstick for judging a healthy and mature democracy is counting how many times political power has changed hands without violence -- Singapore is yet to score after 60 years.