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India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

reuters.com

11–20 of 89 posts

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#11
If you do the math in India, the drivers were basically not earning any money last year. They spend about 30% of their income of debt. Another 30-40% on fuel and maintenance cost. Then 20% charged by Ola and Uber. There’s other miscellaneous fees that creep up plus insurance every year which atleast takes another 10%. So they take home around 10%. That 10% has to pay for food, rent, children’s education, etc.

The argument can be that they’re technically taking home 40% if you take their debt payments that’s paying for an asset.

But a car is a depreciating asset, so after 5 years they’ll technically have lost 50% of that money.

The 10% decrease in fees would go a long way for these drivers. I’ve spoken to a lot of them and it’s really sad what’s happened.

You may ask why did they join in the first place ? They were attracted to these services by glamorous stories of cab drivers making 1500-2000$ a month on these apps. But all fo that income was funded by inorganic incentives that never fit into the unit economics. It was basically VC funding that was channelled into a few drivers income, which then brought in a lot more.

I feel strongly about this as I’ve spoken to multiple drivers who make very little money and work about 12-14 hours a day. You can see a lot of them just sleep in the car in the night to make sure they can make ends meet.

On the other side, they’ve stopped heavily discounting the rides at the consumers end, which means demand has decreased because they had artificially inflated demand by providing a service at discounted prices.

So that means drivers don’t get as many rides either.

It’s basically a double whammy for the driver.

Aggregators charging 20% of the ride costs is just unempathetic and stupid if they actually did the math.

But obviously they’ll have to recoup all the VC money they’ve invested. It baffled me for a long that the unit economic never made sense for the longest time.

They took no fees, they gave discounts and they attracted drivers by inspiring them of glamourous stories where cab drivers were making more than most employees in India.

Most cab drivers who saw this as a gold rush, took on a lot of debt to buy a car and drive people around. With time they’ve realised it’s all a sham but there’s nothing they can do about it. They’ve already committed to the debt, and if they stopped paying it, they’ll loose the car, which is all they have as assets.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#12
post #5

Just experienced what the lack of app based surge pricing does. After exiting a major sporting event I expected the streets to be swarmed by taxis - easy money for them But there was no incentive, nothing to tell the city’s drivers to show up en-masse. They would just earn the same city base fare Thousands of people either had to walk or wait in line at the crowded metro station

Sounds like a good thing to me. Taxis are not a good solution for major sporting events. The metro is the only infrastructure which can handle that sudden burst of people (in my city they run extra metro trains, each which can transport about 1200 people).

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#13
Ridiculous meddling by the government. There are a zillion ways to circumvent this ruling - each of which are easier done by big guys rather than smaller startups. The only thing all this meddling ends up doing is making the space hard for startups to start in and increasing the cost of business.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#14
post #8
post #3

This is a welcome move. For short, small-value rides like with auto-rickshaws, Uber and Ola's commission can be close to 100% or even more. You can travel (slightly) cheaper by negotiating with the famously fleecing rickshaw drivers themselves.

> famously fleecing Fleecing who? Natives would never pay more than a dollar or two for a short ride, and never more than 10-20% more than the “fair” value. It’s even better in places like Mumbai, where everyone uses a standard meter. Tourists would pay 10x but in my experience they don’t even notice or care they’re getting fleeced because $10 for a short (5-6km) trip is a reasonable price to them.

It is not OK to fleece anyone 'because they are tourists'.

EDIT: Removed rant

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#15

I can't see any situation where Uber retains its current volume if it increases its prices. I'm not a particularly price sensitive customer, yet I find myself taking auto rickshaws more and more. The gap between their fares and Uber are becoming a little to unjustifiable. I'm comfortable with an Uber being 1.5-2x more than an auto, but fares these days are often 2.5-4x higher. My Uber usage is now reserved mostly for…

I usually take an Uber only when I know that it’s price is going to be cheaper than a taxi, when public transport is inconvenient, and when time isn’t an issue (prices are sometimes at a 10-15% discount to black-and-yellow taxis at non-peak hours).

Uber/Ola has slotted itself as more of a nice transport option than a necessity. That’s a good deal for me, all things considered. Hopefully it stays that way.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> famously fleecing Fleecing who? Natives would never pay more than a dollar or two for a short ride, and never more than 10-20% more than the “fair” value. It’s even better in places like Mumbai, where everyone uses a standard meter. Tourists would pay 10x but in my experience they don’t even notice or care they’re getting fleeced because $10 for a short (5-6km) trip is a reasonable price to them.

It is not OK to fleece anyone 'because they are tourists'. EDIT: Removed rant

Please show me the tourist who had a problem paying $10 for a ride across town. It’s a rounding error for people used to paying 2-3x that rate normally.

I have probably taken rickshaws as much as you have but I don’t share your contempt for them. They’re doing a difficult job and they’re charging very little for it. You complain so much about their attitude but do you complain about the customer who refuses to pay more than what they paid 5 years ago, as if inflation didn’t exist.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#17
post #12
post #5

Just experienced what the lack of app based surge pricing does. After exiting a major sporting event I expected the streets to be swarmed by taxis - easy money for them But there was no incentive, nothing to tell the city’s drivers to show up en-masse. They would just earn the same city base fare Thousands of people either had to walk or wait in line at the crowded metro station

Sounds like a good thing to me. Taxis are not a good solution for major sporting events. The metro is the only infrastructure which can handle that sudden burst of people (in my city they run extra metro trains, each which can transport about 1200 people).

Not every city out there has a subway system or competent people in charge of public transportation.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#18
post #13

Ridiculous meddling by the government. There are a zillion ways to circumvent this ruling - each of which are easier done by big guys rather than smaller startups. The only thing all this meddling ends up doing is making the space hard for startups to start in and increasing the cost of business.

A startup that keeps eating more and more money like a blackhole without emitting a single penny of profit.

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#19
post #11

If you do the math in India, the drivers were basically not earning any money last year. They spend about 30% of their income of debt. Another 30-40% on fuel and maintenance cost. Then 20% charged by Ola and Uber. There’s other miscellaneous fees that creep up plus insurance every year which atleast takes another 10%. So they take home around 10%. That 10% has to pay for food, rent, children’s education, etc. The arg…

If this were true, drives would quit en-mass. This is entirely an at-will engagement, any party can back out at any time if things don't work out

Re: India considers commissions cap for Uber, Ola, unsettling industry

#20
post #7
post #5

Just experienced what the lack of app based surge pricing does. After exiting a major sporting event I expected the streets to be swarmed by taxis - easy money for them But there was no incentive, nothing to tell the city’s drivers to show up en-masse. They would just earn the same city base fare Thousands of people either had to walk or wait in line at the crowded metro station

I'm guessing the regular people in the city were very happy that they didn't experience sudden shortage of taxis, coupled with an extreme surge in price. Meanwhile, the spectators from the sport event were incentivized to choose the more efficient means of transport. Looking at it from the systems level, I'm not at all convinced that when a mass event spikes the demand for taxis, having drivers go to that event chasi…

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