I've spent so many years playing and hearing about how Go will not be solved in our lifetime that the day AlphaGo won 4/5 games v Lee Sedol marked my personal timeline into what came before and after. I walked around all day in a daze watching people as they go about their daily lives as if nothing had happened. I've heard it said that man landing on the moon was like that for them, but I didn't understand as it was…
Go still isn't solved (neither is chess), we just have a machine good at knowing which parts of the search space are worth checking.
Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
261–270 of 554 posts
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#262I've spent so many years playing and hearing about how Go will not be solved in our lifetime that the day AlphaGo won 4/5 games v Lee Sedol marked my personal timeline into what came before and after. I walked around all day in a daze watching people as they go about their daily lives as if nothing had happened. I've heard it said that man landing on the moon was like that for them, but I didn't understand as it was…
Go still isn't solved (neither is chess), we just have a machine good at knowing which parts of the search space are worth checking.
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not a bee. I have no queen. I am not part of a hive, I am a social individual. This hive mind over-simplification is ridiculous and to me: disgusting. As if we were one
>social individual There’s your hive
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#264While I can understand Lee Se-dol's frustration, I think there are better lessons to learn from Kasparov's acceptance after the Deep Blue vs Kasparov matches. Cyborg chess is the future of chess. Period. Chess players use computers to train themselves and explore openings in human-only settings, while programmers / cyborgs play correspondence chess. Go is not finished as a game. A new tool, MCTS + Neural nets, has be…
I agree, and this could also be rephrased as we're not really human any more since the advent of writing or (especially) printing.
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a person who likes music, making it, listening to it, breaking it down and hacking it... Making a classical arrangement that evokes a particular expression in the listener is the job of the musician. If an AI system helps you explore the possibilities there, it's more like a studio musician that's able to improvise. You're still the person, the human, the emotional filter, that picks "This sounds right" or "This d…
>It's like arguing "Since AIs will be able to comment on Hacker News, humans won't." I'm not so sure. I often go into threads on HN and realize that every idea I could come up with on the subject has already been expressed better than I could do it, with greater expertise, and cited sources. I don't comment in those threads. If AI bots could populate a thread with every likely human thought and argue it with depth an…
What distinguishes music written by AI from music made from humans? I have a story to tell. If the AI has a story to tell, one that speaks to our human emotions, it might make good music. But the point is to communicate. Even if you take, for example, someone else's words, fit them to a different model in a different field, viewpoint... You might get interesting things. You could make a cover of someone else's song, with your twist. Adding your emotion to the melting pot. AIs might be good at that, just like that, but only through communicating. Just like us. We have no idea whether they'll be better than us at doing it, or merely equivalent. We have no idea what is lossy in our sharing of mental models. Perhaps it is an unsolvable problem, which we will find out in the same way we found out about Gödel's Incompleteness.
It seems to me like we fail to understand how unique we are. We are in a unique position to shape what comes after us, and we are blind to how much we unconsciously select for things. We have an innate mental model of "humanity" we are trying to transmit to machines, and I am not sure we fully grasp it well enough to make sure we are creating something like us. We fail to do it properly to humans, sometimes, who actually do share most of our instincts and habits. Something entirely different from us? Color me skeptical.
This kind of debate only highlights this, to me.
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#266I've spent so many years playing and hearing about how Go will not be solved in our lifetime that the day AlphaGo won 4/5 games v Lee Sedol marked my personal timeline into what came before and after. I walked around all day in a daze watching people as they go about their daily lives as if nothing had happened. I've heard it said that man landing on the moon was like that for them, but I didn't understand as it was…
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not an invalid point at all. The only question is how long it'll take to come to pass. I disagree with the "relatively near future" part, but rest assured, AI rights will eventually be a thing.
'Your argument is as morally repugnant as racist arguments' as a response to 'I don't think machines will ever capture human aesthetics or emotions' is ridiculous, glib and ugly.
It will be our grandchildrens' flame war. No need to fight it here and now.
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#268This is about human drive and what's the point if the computer will always be better. In a way it makes the game a bit less fun because it somewhat kills the elusiveness of it all and the human aspect of men trying to surpass each others feats. If a man cannot beat a machine at a task where they are to compete directly, what's the point of trying at all if the machine will always be better?
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, it must be sobering to realize that even with an entire lifetime of practice, you will never be better than a simple residual network trained for less than a week.
Is it sobering to realize that you will never multiply 12-digit numbers as well as a $0.99 calculator?
Re: Go master Lee Se-dol says he quits, unable to win over AI Go players
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would counter with the fact that in physical endeavors it's apparent to us that we are not #1 - our household cats are more agile than us. It's in matters of intellect that humans still believe they are #1. AlphaGO's achievement in another field would have similar effects, e.g.: - An AI that diagnoses sickness better than any doctor - An AI that generates text which humans believe more beautiful than any other poet…
> An AI that generates text which humans believe more beautiful than any other poetry created - An AI which creates classical arrangements the likes of which we compare to Mozart Hrm, I do think that AI would be able to create narratives that humans find more enjoyable than the work of other humans, and I agree that AI would be able to create pictures and sound that humans find to be more enjoyable to look at or hear…
“How the clouds Seem to me birds, birds in God's garden! I dare not! The clouds are as a breath, the leaves are flakes of fire, That clash i' the wind and lift themselves from higher!”
As someone who grew up in Appalachia, I have never in my life encountered a more visual, visceral description of autumn leaves than ‘flakes of fire’. It’s perfection, and maybe a single human is behind it, but more likely we all wrote it.