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RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

reuters.com

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Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#271

Post by dependenttypes »

FailEEStudent wrote: post #267
pavon wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I curious about what the legal implications of this really are. As a layman, it seems to me that US Export Control laws still exist, so if any of the technical data being discussed in the standards meetings would be considered an export before, it still will now. The change is that the liability has shifted off of the Foundation and onto the American members. If the Foundation as a whole couldn't determine its legal…

Open-source information isn't export controlled but technical data is. You can imagine this causes alot of consternation with standards organizations b/c that line isn't exactly clear. I was just speaking to legal counsel at GSMA and their response was "no one knows what the law is unless the government says we violated it".

Sounds pretty similar to what happened in the Bernstein v. United States case.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#273

Post by dang »

Tepix wrote: post #96
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #12

I appreciate and welcome this move by RISC-V foundation. With semiconductor industry being used as a major soft power, countries which don't have such power betting on RISC-V[1], it's wise to move to a neutral country. My only gripe being, there aren't many neutral countries which can stand up to powerful militarized nations. Edit: The reason, I mentioned lack of military power of neutral countries is because of the…

"Hague invasion act" =:-O The US truly are the bully in the room.

Please keep nationalistic flamewar off HN and please don't post flamebait, period. The subthread this led to is exactly what we don't need here: tedious repetition of the same-old for the nth time, getting nastier as it goes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#274

Post by pgeorgi »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #240
K0SM0S wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~1.5M that could be conscripted. That's not huge, but it's enough to give an enemy a bad time, especially with the Swiss terrain and strategic defenses. Switzerland is filthy rich, too. Private fortunes thought to rival or surpass the biggest public billionaires, money pipes throughout the world beyond measure — the result of centuries of diligently building a discrete but very real financial empire... all of that…

Rich doesn't mean anything if the currency is worthless. Switzerland has value in a consistent, trustable system and educated population. But without a larger military standing behind it, such as other European countries or the US, it's not going to be able to defend against a larger aggressor. That's why an extremely indebted USA is still very valuable. Because they can park a few aircraft carriers off the coast of…

Off the coast of Switzerland? O_o

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#275

Post by krowfromthewall »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #218
stjohnswarts wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is going to invade Switzerland for a RISC cpu design

None needs to, it's opensource. They're moving to protect its freedom.

I think the term used for Hardware is Open Access, not Open Source

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#276

Post by cyphar »

onepointsixC wrote: post #195
pjc50 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that the point isn't legitimate, but it carries less weight because China can just say "we're following the US example". https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-chinese-papers-on-mus... : "Xi pushed the party to use the "organs of dictatorship" to move millions of the minority group, Uighur Muslims, into the camps in western China and cited the United States' war on terror following 9/11 for an example of how to l…

> it carries less weight because China can just say "we're following the US example". I agree that post 9/11 US foreign policy making has been disastrous and utterly corrosive to America's ability to hold the moral high ground. But surely we can differentiate here. Putting millions of Uhyger men into camps and forcing their wives to share beds with Han men is on a whole another level[1]. [1]: https://www.independent.…

The US's disastrous and inhumane foreign policy started long before 2001 (though 9/11 did make it worse). The Vietnam War (where the US routinely engaged in chemical warfare -- a war crime) immediately springs to mind but there are many other examples.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#277

Post by m0zg »

lone_haxx0r wrote: post #9
m0zg wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this "comedy"? That's exactly what they are trying to do. Moreover, the US taxpayer is paying for it all. https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2019-11-18%20PSI%...

Because it makes me laugh that they actually believe that the measures they're taking will somehow benefit the United States. It also makes me laugh that they think they can control the development of open standards.

The uncomfortable truth is that restraining China's ambition does directly benefit the United States. Especially the part of the United States that's in the middle of the country that was basically sold out for a quick buck by the ruling elite over the past 3 decades.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#278

Post by pjc50 »

FailEEStudent wrote: post #268
pjc50 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our community isn’t used to thinking about open source software - or technology in general- in the context of geopolitics I'm old enough to remember when open-source distributions had special "non-US" sections for cryptography that actually worked. All I ask is that if you have a "this software may not be used to run an internment camp" license, it gets even-handedly applied.

Open-source crypto has no export controls. Private crypto by Raytheon, Lockheed and others has export controls

That was not what people believed at the time, and indeed I don't think any of the relevant laws have ever mentioned "open source" or similar. It's actually still in force, it's just that there are large enough exemptions for HTTPS to work.

e.g. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/complying...

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#279

Post by cyphar »

some_random wrote: post #259
wsy wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because then US would stop doing business with Saudi-Arabia.

The fact that you consider the two similar betrays some pretty serious ignorance.

The US backs (either financially, politically, or militarily) 70% of the world's dictatorships -- many of which were placed into power after US-organised coups overthrew their democratically-elected leaders. Yemen has open-air slave markets, thanks to the US's bombings and destabilisation of the region.

The point is that "we are doing the humane thing" is not an argument that the US has legitimate access to anymore.

Also let's not forget that Saudi Arabia treats women as third-class citizens. Let's not pretend they're some paragon of virtue.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#280

Post by [deleted] »

pgeorgi wrote: post #274
lotsofpulp wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich doesn't mean anything if the currency is worthless. Switzerland has value in a consistent, trustable system and educated population. But without a larger military standing behind it, such as other European countries or the US, it's not going to be able to defend against a larger aggressor. That's why an extremely indebted USA is still very valuable. Because they can park a few aircraft carriers off the coast of…

Off the coast of Switzerland? O_o

[deleted]
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