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IPv6 is here

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Re: IPv6 is here

#21

Post by ams6110 »

pyre wrote: post #14
iloveponies wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which software packages are you talking about, specifically? I seldom encounter libraries or packages that entirely do not support IPv6 (except for MySQL). At the very most it's a configuration flag or compile option to switch it on, if it's not on by default. I'm also curious as to how easy you'll find these homes with a myriad of routers either ISP supplied or third party, and the case you have to convince them tha…

If cable-companies can figure-out how to transition users from their analog cable boxes to the digital ones, I'm sure ISPs can figure out how to transition their customers to IPv6-capable routers. It should be dead-simple for the ISP-leased routers, but for people with their own routers, it's still an ISP-level issue. They just need to tell their new customers that they need an IPv6 capable router, and to figure out…

My cable company lost my business when they last year began requiring a "box" to receive TV. I already had a newer digital-capable TV, and did not want yet another gadget and tangle of wires on my TV stand. It was the final straw, the other two being the cost and the low-value content.

I actually didn't drop them completely, but did fall back to "basic" (no box required) + internet (cheaper than internet alone, which is what I really wanted).

Re: IPv6 is here

#22

Post by ams6110 »

tptacek wrote: post #6

IPv6 is in no sense here. The fiat allocators can exhaust their address space completely and the Internet will continue to function indefinitely; it will simply become more expensive (first marginally, and then significantly) to hold a static address. There are deep problems with universal deployment of IPv6 far beyond simply getting people to throw a switch; the number of popular software packages that will malfunct…

The natural solution will be that IPv4 addresses will start getting more and more expensive as they become scarce. At some point, switching to IPv6 will be the cheaper option, and then the switch will happen.

Re: IPv6 is here

#23

Post by davros »

chair6 wrote: post #5

Here, yes, but not particularly wide-spread and slowly becoming more necessary. A little tool I built last week .. is your site IPv6 ready? http://ready.chair6.net

None of the first four urls I randomly tried slashdot, ibm, dell, ycombinator have AAAA records.

IPv6 is not here and won't be for a long time. While v6 may be better in some circumstances, it is worse in others. I'll be keeping my offices behind NAT routers thank you!

Re: IPv6 is here

#24

Post by kbyers »

pyre wrote: post #10
tptacek wrote: post #6

IPv6 is in no sense here. The fiat allocators can exhaust their address space completely and the Internet will continue to function indefinitely; it will simply become more expensive (first marginally, and then significantly) to hold a static address. There are deep problems with universal deployment of IPv6 far beyond simply getting people to throw a switch; the number of popular software packages that will malfunct…

The internet will not function indefinitely. You're forgetting that some of those software packages that are expecting IPv4 addresses also may not function behind a NAT box/router very well or at all.

If your application doesn't work behind an IPv4 NAT box, then your application is broke already. It will likely be broke in IPv6 as well since firewalls are not going away (and many of the same protocols that break because of NAT also break with stateful firewalls).

Re: IPv6 is here

#25

Post by devicenull »

dholowiski wrote: post #20
jedsmith wrote: post #16

This needs a better headline, given the gravity of the announcement. IPv6 is by no means here , and really has nothing to do with this news item. To me, "IPv6 is here" says absolutely nothing about the real news here - APNIC having received two /8s (and one forthcoming), making them the recipient of three out of seven of the remaining /8s. The gravity of this announcement is that we are now in the Exhaustion Phase of…

Definetley, inaccurate headline. The problem is, this is a historic moment, it's just extremely difficult to explain why. This is more lime the beginning of the end. It's going to be long and drawn out.

I won't really deny that. I can't really come up with a catchy title for what actually happened today, but I feel it's pretty important.

Re: IPv6 is here

#26

Post by pyre »

kbyers wrote: post #24
pyre wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet will not function indefinitely. You're forgetting that some of those software packages that are expecting IPv4 addresses also may not function behind a NAT box/router very well or at all.

If your application doesn't work behind an IPv4 NAT box, then your application is broke already. It will likely be broke in IPv6 as well since firewalls are not going away (and many of the same protocols that break because of NAT also break with stateful firewalls).

I'm implying a legacy application that only works with IPv4 addresses, and doesn't work well behind a NAT. I know those are two separate issues, but the transition to IPv6 will likely require those software packages to be rewritten anyways so the idea that it will be broken even on IPv6 is moot because it won't even work on IPv6 as it currently is.

Re: IPv6 is here

#27

Post by jefe78 »

devicenull wrote: post #25
dholowiski wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definetley, inaccurate headline. The problem is, this is a historic moment, it's just extremely difficult to explain why. This is more lime the beginning of the end. It's going to be long and drawn out.

I won't really deny that. I can't really come up with a catchy title for what actually happened today, but I feel it's pretty important.

"The end is nigh...for IP4!" perhaps?

Re: IPv6 is here

#28

Post by andyv »

ams6110 wrote: post #22
tptacek wrote: post #6

IPv6 is in no sense here. The fiat allocators can exhaust their address space completely and the Internet will continue to function indefinitely; it will simply become more expensive (first marginally, and then significantly) to hold a static address. There are deep problems with universal deployment of IPv6 far beyond simply getting people to throw a switch; the number of popular software packages that will malfunct…

The natural solution will be that IPv4 addresses will start getting more and more expensive as they become scarce. At some point, switching to IPv6 will be the cheaper option, and then the switch will happen.

But if you only buy an ipv6 address, the people who are only on ipv4 can't get to you. By itself, the ipv6 address is nearly worthless. The only people who have them now are people who also have an ipv4 address. ipv4 isn't going away any time soon...

Re: IPv6 is here

#29

Post by bodyfour »

rbranson wrote: post #17

We are by no means out of IPv4 addresses. The next step is that all of the entities who needlessly snapped up /8 space early on and sat on it for so long will be selling it off. The list includes GE, Xerox, IBM, HP, Apple, MIT, Ford, Halliburton, Prudential Insurance, Bell-Northern, Merck, Eli Lilly, the DoD/military (who has 13), USPS, and CSC. Just half of this space is 234m IPv4 addresses.

Sigh... this idea has to get thrown out every time there's an IPv4-exhaustion discussion. I guess I'll be the one to do the public service of debunking it this time.

* You can assume that each of the /8s have plenty of infrastructure relying on them, meaning $millions in migration costs. Do you think that the holders will just give them up tomorrow, or do you think its more likely they'll sick some lawyers on the problem? So even if you CAN get them back it'll take years.

* For each /8 you successfully extract this way, you buy the world mere WEEKS of time.

IPv4 allocation isn't completely efficient -- we all know that. The real problem, however, isn't efficiency. 2^32 is just too small of a number.

Re: IPv6 is here

#30

Post by SoftwareMaven »

steadicat wrote: post #18

Is nobody else afraid that instead of IPv6 we're now going to get more and more layers of NAT? Sure, for us geeks that's totally unthinkable... no servers, no P2P?!? But most users, who are content with just web & email, will probably never notice the difference. ISPs will surely find it easier to turn NAT on than to switch to IPv6, and the backlash might be close to nonexistent.

BitTorrent might save the day on that one. It is one of the few things that will be impacted negatively for "normal" users.
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