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The Real Class War

americanaffairsjournal.org

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201–210 of 634 posts

Re: The Real Class War

#201

Post by helen___keller »

paulsutter wrote: post #187

The top 0.1% consists mostly of top 1% folks having a windfall, and the top 1% is mostly top 10% folks having some good years. These aren’t really separate and distinct classes of people as is popularly imagined > The performance gap between the top 1 or 0.1 percent versus the top 10 percent is actually larger than the gap between those right at 10 percent and any part of the bottom 90 percent.

> The top 0.1% consists mostly of top 1% folks having a windfall, and the top 1% is mostly top 10% folks having some good years. These aren’t really separate and distinct classes of people as is popularly imagined

They aren't "separate" in that we're not literally a feudal society. Sure, I can agree that an ordinary engineer has a chance of making it big on stock options and becoming a multi millionaire.

But that's not common. It's like winning the lottery. You can't plan to join a startup that will make you a millionaire, especially if you aren't a software engineer or aren't living in silicon valley. And for everyone else, the gap between the 0.1% and the 1% and the 10% is widening.

Re: The Real Class War

#202

Post by jschwartzi »

dantheman wrote: post #196
_iyig wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but nobody's happy about cheap lawn furniture, for example, when they can't afford homes, healthcare, or education.

Interesting that those three industries are the most heavily regulated and manipulated by the government.

Can you please make your point directly instead of snarking about regulation instead? It contributes little to the conversation if your don’t put forth any arguments or discussion.

Re: The Real Class War

#203

Post by hnuser77 »

>"Indeed the conspicuous embrace of 'elite values' by journalists and academics is often little more than an aspi­rational attempt to remain connected to an economically distant elite...they gave professionals greater scope to manage “postmaterial' concerns that suited their cultural sensibilities..."

In other words, this potential class war is pacified by telling the upper-middle class that they are culturally superior in spite of their increasing economic precarity. Someone in this class who has to take out massive loans, move across the country, and spend $30,000 a year on rent with no hope of ever owning a home in order to have an insecure job in their field must be assured that living this way, combined with a mix of vague cultural markers, is tasteful and elite, and not an empty bag. There may also be a variety of well-funded social movements that pose zero threat to the economic position of the 0.1% to participate in as an activist.

Re: The Real Class War

#204

Post by rgrieselhuber »

Wh1skey wrote: post #165

The story of Rome’s fall is both complicated and relatively straightforward yet it eerily resembles America: The state became too big and chaotic; the influence of money and private interests corrupted public institutions; and social and economic inequalities became so large that citizens lost faith in the system altogether and gradually fell into the arms of tyrants and demagogues. If all of that sounds familiar, we…

The debasement of money is also a factor in both stories.

Re: The Real Class War

#205

Post by johncalvinyoung »

username90 wrote: post #181
theohofpleasure wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a company which makes the profit. If you started a company and sold the tool for $500 and the company paid you $500 then there is no more profit for the company. If the company paid you $250, only then can they claim to have made $250 profit. Hence, profits are nothing more than unpaid wages.

A goes and buys flour for 100$ from farmer B. Then A goes and pay independent baker C 100$ to make bread from the flour. Then A goes and pay independent retailer D 100$ to sell the bread for $500. Each cycle A makes $200 in profit, nobody loses out as everyone agreed to the terms. This is enough margin for A to pay an independent manager $100 each time he repeats the process, ultimately netting A $100 without A doing…

There's a word for this in economics. The 'normal profit' is the 'wages' of the entrepreneur and risk-taker -> the return on the money invested or put at risk, and the time and effort of the entrepreneur to build the business. Nothing immoral about that.

Re: The Real Class War

#206

Post by fluorocarbon »

Wh1skey wrote: post #165

The story of Rome’s fall is both complicated and relatively straightforward yet it eerily resembles America: The state became too big and chaotic; the influence of money and private interests corrupted public institutions; and social and economic inequalities became so large that citizens lost faith in the system altogether and gradually fell into the arms of tyrants and demagogues. If all of that sounds familiar, we…

Mortal Republic is not about the fall of Rome. It's about the fall of the Republic, or the transition from a republic (oligarchy) into an empire (monarchy). Rome in fact reached its largest extent about a hundred years after the fall of the Republic, under the emperor Trajan.

When people talk about "Rome's fall," they're usually referring to the decline of the western half of the empire which happened 400-500 years after the fall of the Republic. The reasons for this fall are debated, but it's likely due to some combination of plague, invasions, elite infighting, and a lack of rules about succession leading to constant civil wars.

Re: The Real Class War

#207

Post by kiterunner2346 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #7

Theorists of capitalism long argued that it and it alone could efficiently distribute resources across an economy (though not, oddly, within a firm). This might be true in an economy whose rules about contrantracts, commerce, and property relations were fixed and predictable, but most economic simulations overlook or sidestep the fact that the most powerful economic incumbents can and do adjust the legal conditions t…

Capitalism can't do that without redistribution in the form of severe taxation of the wealthy. That's why we need to revive estate taxes and inheritance taxes: in their absence, great dynasties of incredible wealth are formed and then sit idle for decades or even centuries, protecting themselves in trust fund fortresses to no particular end than their own existence.

Re: The Real Class War

#208

Post by BuckRogers »

blfr wrote: post #79
BuckRogers wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's evident in the Bernie Sanders movement (and to a lesser extent, Warren). Folks like myself support him even though we're some sort of "upper middle class" or some form of middle-merchant class. Not owners, not truly capitalist/investment class, but solidly aligned with everyone else who also has to show up at 9AM daily to get their checks. This more affluent middle class of information workers are lead…

Folks like myself support him even though we're some sort of "upper middle class" or some form of middle-merchant class. Why do you say "even though"? Sanders and Warren target upper middle class and people aspiring to it.

I was referencing the article which states, it's (almost) against class interests for these people to do so. That said, I disagree with any distinction in classes other than their actual function, workers vs owners. The upper/middle/lower descriptions don't mean much to me.

Re: The Real Class War

#209

Post by a3n »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #159

I've spent my career working in public policy circles, and this rings true to me. > At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation or agency personnel, much less on governance areas that have been transferred to technocratic bodies. > Unlike the work­ing class, the professional managerial class is still capable of, and re­q…

> because they are the ones that show up to do that work every day

As I used to say back when I was a programmer, often in the context of fads like "quality is free," nothing gets done unless you do that thing on purpose.

Re: The Real Class War

#210

Post by tengbretson »

intended wrote: post #129
simonh wrote: post #105

This is all driven by globalisation, and don't get me wrong I'm a globalist, but this is just a fact. First manual labour in manufacturing was outsourced abroad, then higher tier tech jobs in software and product engineering. Now big firms from former third world countries are muscling in on markets at every level of the economy, creating competition at every level of business. You can't add hundreds of millions of C…

That’s incorrect - the global pie has grown bigger. Inches and markers exist which never existed before. All those new workers are consumers for goods and services from America. America soy beans are famously bought in China, as are American bonds. Economically- if you get cheaper goods, you do more with the same income, meaning your quality of life goes up. The issue is not the growth of China- the issue is the dist…

> All those new workers are consumers for goods and services from America.

While this might be nominally true, our ability to sell into China is so asymmetric compared to their ability to sell here it might as well be nonexistent.

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