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The Real Class War

americanaffairsjournal.org

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181–190 of 634 posts

Re: The Real Class War

#181

Post by username90 »

theohofpleasure wrote: post #133
_carl_jung wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I invent (at the cost of $500) a programming tool that improves your output by 50%. This enables you to earn $5000 more per year than previously. You purchase that software for $1000, providing me a profit of $500. Who's wages are unpaid?

It's a company which makes the profit. If you started a company and sold the tool for $500 and the company paid you $500 then there is no more profit for the company. If the company paid you $250, only then can they claim to have made $250 profit. Hence, profits are nothing more than unpaid wages.

A goes and buys flour for 100$ from farmer B. Then A goes and pay independent baker C 100$ to make bread from the flour. Then A goes and pay independent retailer D 100$ to sell the bread for $500.

Each cycle A makes $200 in profit, nobody loses out as everyone agreed to the terms.

This is enough margin for A to pay an independent manager $100 each time he repeats the process, ultimately netting A $100 without A doing anything. Is A taking advantage of everyone here? No, of course not, everyone still agreed to all the terms, A was just aware of a business opportunity the others were not, risked his own money paying for goods and labor he wasn't sure he could sell and now everyone is richer as a result.

This is how businesses works. Of course in practice sometimes businesses does scummy things, but that is why we have laws which are meant to ensure that all businesses are net positive for society. If a business is not net positive then we send the police to them and shut them down. That doesn't work when businesses have politicians in their pockets, but it works in parts of the world where workers have more political influence.

Re: The Real Class War

#182

Post by nyolfen »

AlexandrB wrote: post #146
Pigo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if China played by the rules, and did something about ip theft...

I really hope they don't. Western IP laws have become suffocating to innovation (life of author +70 years copyright, software patents), and need to be weakened. Perhaps if China is successful with weaker IP laws it will get some politicians off their ass on the issue.

i would settle for not having our businesses hacked by their state

Re: The Real Class War

#183

Post by helen___keller »

xwowsersx wrote: post #171

> But it is precisely for these reasons that the working class is unlikely to be decisive in shaping politics for the foreseeable future. However one defines the working class, it has scarcely any political agency in the current system and no apparent means for acquiring any. At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation o…

While I don't really agree with the author on this point, I think the basis of the claim is implied to be the election of Trump. Trump prevailing in the primary (and the general even) could be seen as a referendum of the working class on establishment politics.

And yet, what has changed? Trump hasn't brought back American industry as promised, nor has he made a trillion dollars infrastructure package as promised. He has succeeded in a tax plan (approved by establishment Republicans in the Senate), supreme Court picks (approved), etc.

The authors argument would be that this illustrates that picking the occasional anti establishment candidate doesn't uproot necessary structural change which happens across a large number of both elected and nonelected organizations, and well-connected elites are implied to be the only ones in a position to affect such change.

Re: The Real Class War

#184

Post by tristor »

This article is interesting, partly due to the blatant political biases which are present but unrevealed, and partly due to the attempt to address those biases in closing segments. This line in particular was telling "the state—the only way to address the most important issues of the present".

The author of this piece is a left-wing statist, and they interpret all of the data they reference through this lens. That does not mean that their conclusions are wrong in whole, as there's definitely some intriguing things in this article. Their ending statements are relatively on-point and don't align with any particular political leaning.

A good read, but unfortunately didn't tell me anything I didn't already know just from watching the news and paying attention.

Perhaps the most disappointing fact is that the author hinted at but failed to make the correct mental leap. This change in our society and economy is largely a result of globalism. Those in the top elites were able to improve their personal margins at the expense of the rest of the population by moving both production and knowledge work outside the bounds of the US, and in so doing increase the divide. The interaction of state-backed industrial interests in other countries and the anointing of new billionaires at their behest is not to be overlooked either.

I don't see any immediate solutions, as anything direct action will result in chaos, and anything taken slowly will not produce a positive effect in my lifetime. Like many other people in the professional class, my focus is on my own self-reliance and ensuring that I am not beholden to society any more than I must.

Re: The Real Class War

#185

Post by danaris »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #125
danaris wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The result has been a pause in income growth in the western world. We've benefited from cheap imported goods, but lost out in domestic growth. Except that's not true. There's been growth; it's just all gone to the very wealthy in the West.

Sure, but "growth" isn't some physical thing that the very wealthy might have stolen. "All the income growth has gone to the very wealthy" means the same thing as "Income growth has paused, with an exception among the very wealthy".

Except that they have stolen it. Through lobbying and other means, they've gotten the laws changed so that it's much easier for them to hoard vast amounts of money and not be taxed on it (low capital gains taxes, offshore tax shelters, etc). Simultaneously, they've gutted the power of unions, reduced social safety nets, and convinced a huge chunk of America that the ones that are really to blame are other poor people (who just happen to look slightly different than them).

There isn't just some random "exception" among the wealthy. They've very specifically engineered the economy so that they get vastly disproportionate amounts out of it.

Re: The Real Class War

#186

Post by hnuser77 »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #174
Wh1skey wrote: post #165

The story of Rome’s fall is both complicated and relatively straightforward yet it eerily resembles America: The state became too big and chaotic; the influence of money and private interests corrupted public institutions; and social and economic inequalities became so large that citizens lost faith in the system altogether and gradually fell into the arms of tyrants and demagogues. If all of that sounds familiar, we…

Not to mention they were all poisoned by lead, using it for sweeteners, pipes, and for their chalices and cups.

One could consider Americans poisoned by something, considering that 40% of the American population is obese (not just overweight) and sperm count has declined 50% in developed countries over the past few decades.

Re: The Real Class War

#187

Post by paulsutter »

The top 0.1% consists mostly of top 1% folks having a windfall, and the top 1% is mostly top 10% folks having some good years. These aren’t really separate and distinct classes of people as is popularly imagined

> The performance gap between the top 1 or 0.1 percent versus the top 10 percent is actually larger than the gap between those right at 10 percent and any part of the bottom 90 percent.

Re: The Real Class War

#188

Post by xwowsersx »

helen___keller wrote: post #183
xwowsersx wrote: post #171

> But it is precisely for these reasons that the working class is unlikely to be decisive in shaping politics for the foreseeable future. However one defines the working class, it has scarcely any political agency in the current system and no apparent means for acquiring any. At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation o…

While I don't really agree with the author on this point, I think the basis of the claim is implied to be the election of Trump. Trump prevailing in the primary (and the general even) could be seen as a referendum of the working class on establishment politics. And yet, what has changed? Trump hasn't brought back American industry as promised, nor has he made a trillion dollars infrastructure package as promised. He…

I hear you, but that's an argument that the person that the "working class" voted in has been ineffectual in bringing about the change they are looking for (debatable). That's not an argument that they are not decisive in shaping politics. If electing Trump is a referendum on "the elite" then his election proves the opposite, no?

Re: The Real Class War

#189

Post by lotsofpulp »

_iyig wrote: post #157
dcolkitt wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the people who have captured the gains from that growth have been the capital class in the developed nations (i.e not blue collar workers or the professional class) Wrong. Middle-class Americans have captured gains through cheaper, higher-quality products than would have otherwise existed without trade and development. Are you using a phone made in China, or wearing clothes made in Bangladesh, or eat fresh fruit in…

Maybe so, but nobody's happy about cheap lawn furniture, for example, when they can't afford homes, healthcare, or education.

I think that's a consequence of pulling wealth from the future into the present to counteract the loss of wealth due to decreases in the price of labor due to increase in supply of labor from other countries and decrease in demand of labor due to automation.

Question is how far into the future are we going to keep pulling.

Re: The Real Class War

#190

Post by edoceo »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #174
Wh1skey wrote: post #165

The story of Rome’s fall is both complicated and relatively straightforward yet it eerily resembles America: The state became too big and chaotic; the influence of money and private interests corrupted public institutions; and social and economic inequalities became so large that citizens lost faith in the system altogether and gradually fell into the arms of tyrants and demagogues. If all of that sounds familiar, we…

Not to mention they were all poisoned by lead, using it for sweeteners, pipes, and for their chalices and cups.

Flint, MI would like a word
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