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Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

bbc.com

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Re: Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

#21

Post by netcan »

IceCreamGondola wrote: post #8

Without knowing the in's and out's of supply and demand this really raises the question as to why 14,000 sheep needed to be transported. Our reliance on global markets for our produce is out of hand (probably preaching to the converted here).

"Our" reliance, in this case, is Saudi Arabia's. They live in a desert that won't produce enough sheep/meat for their pots.

In some senses, this is not new for the region. Meat was produced locally, but rice and wheat have been the main staples for thousands of years. They don't grow in deserts (before irrigation).

There are lots of very ancient cities in the deep deserts of the Middle East.. places that don't produce much food. Petra is a striking one. They've been eating store bought, imported food since before europe existed.

Re: Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

#22

Post by an_ko »

henryaj wrote: post #15
dev_north_east wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Because of the extraordinary suffering it causes to animals. https://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/live-animal-transport/

I'm sure it would be possible to transport animals more gently. Banning live animal transport altogether sounds like an overreaction.

Re: Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

#23

Post by netcan »

kmlx wrote: post #11
IceCreamGondola wrote: post #8

Without knowing the in's and out's of supply and demand this really raises the question as to why 14,000 sheep needed to be transported. Our reliance on global markets for our produce is out of hand (probably preaching to the converted here).

> why 14,000 sheep needed to be transported why not? if i sell my sheep and need to deliver them to the buyer, then i'll need a form of transport.

The pertinent question is "why live?" Live transports are (for example) the biggest animal welfare issue for kiwi sheep.

Re: Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

#26

Post by randomsearch »

andrewjrhill wrote: post #14
xvx wrote: post #7

Modern day slave ships. I’m sure the sheep are insured and it’s more profitable to leave them to drown.

Are you trolling or do you genuinely believe the trade and transport of livestock is the same as human slavery? The mind boggles.

I’m undecided on this topic, but it’s an interesting test of imagination as to whether you could envisage animals before afforded the same rights as humans in the future. Certainly the direction of travel strengthens that proposition, and contemporary attitudes to slavery show just how wrong you can be simply by relying on the ethics in vogue during your lifetime.

Re: Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

#27

Post by pvaldes »

henryaj wrote: post #15
dev_north_east wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Because of the extraordinary suffering it causes to animals. https://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/live-animal-transport/

The same animals walking under the desert sun for months coated in wool without nothing green at sight, does not seem like a totally cruelty-free better alternative necessarily. There is not logical reason to see it as a morally superior alternative.

There is bad ways and good ways to transport animals by road.

Re: Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

#28

Post by Ensorceled »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #16
IceCreamGondola wrote: post #8

Without knowing the in's and out's of supply and demand this really raises the question as to why 14,000 sheep needed to be transported. Our reliance on global markets for our produce is out of hand (probably preaching to the converted here).

right, why don't they flock them on their vast deserts

I see New Zealand lamb, frozen, in my Toronto supermarkets all the time ... they don't need to be alive.

Re: Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

#29

Post by 7952 »

IceCreamGondola wrote: post #8

Without knowing the in's and out's of supply and demand this really raises the question as to why 14,000 sheep needed to be transported. Our reliance on global markets for our produce is out of hand (probably preaching to the converted here).

I think that it may be connected to halal restrictions. The ship was destined for Saudi Arabia, and the sheep would be slaughtered locally.

Re: Rescuers race to save 14k sheep on capsized cargo ship

#30

Post by IceCreamGondola »

netcan wrote: post #21
IceCreamGondola wrote: post #8

Without knowing the in's and out's of supply and demand this really raises the question as to why 14,000 sheep needed to be transported. Our reliance on global markets for our produce is out of hand (probably preaching to the converted here).

"Our" reliance, in this case, is Saudi Arabia's. They live in a desert that won't produce enough sheep/meat for their pots. In some senses, this is not new for the region. Meat was produced locally, but rice and wheat have been the main staples for thousands of years. They don't grow in deserts (before irrigation). There are lots of very ancient cities in the deep deserts of the Middle East.. places that don't produc…

> In the 1970s, increasing incomes in urban areas stimulated the demand for meat and dairy products, but by the early 1980s government programs were only partially successful in increasing domestic production. Bedouin continued to raise a large number of sheep and goats. Payments for increased flocks, however, had not resulted in a proportionate increase of animals for slaughter. Some commercial feedlots for sheep and cattle had been established as well as a few modern ranches, but by the early 1980s, much of the meat consumed was imported. Although the meat supply was still largely imported in the early 1990s, domestic production of meat had grown by 33 percent between 1984 and 1990, from 101,000 tons to 134,000 tons. This increase, however, masked the dominant role of traditional farms in supplying meat. Although new projects accounted for some of the rapid growth during the 1980s, a sharp decline of roughly 74 percent in beef stock production by specialized projects during 1989 resulted in only a 15 percent fall in meat output. This reversal also highlighted the problems in introducing modern commercial livestock-rearing techniques to the Kingdom. [1]

Yes they don't have the capability to rear enough livestock so they have to import. Saudi Arabia existed before large scale imports like this, the problem is our (read: economically powerful countries) expectations are that we can get whatever we want whenever we want. When that happens tragedies like this occur.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Saudi_Arabia

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