Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 381 posts

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#251

Post by rapind »

Alex3917 wrote: post #230
danmaz74 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Higher minimum wage is a subsidy for tech companies though By which mechanism?

When you raise the minimum wage, it makes automation more effective in comparison. Which is why in NYC when they raised the minimum wage for fast food workers, most of the people at McDonald's who used to take orders just got replaced with kiosks. This is in effect a subsidy for the tech companies that automate labor, like the company that makes the McDonald's kiosks.

If this is true, then I would guess that eventually it would have happened anyways. Automation is only going to get more effective, and the costs to automate can only go down. So at the most, all this could do is speed up adoption (but I still question if it really has or is just a scapegoat).

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#252

Post by jeremyjh »

Alex3917 wrote: post #230
danmaz74 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Higher minimum wage is a subsidy for tech companies though By which mechanism?

When you raise the minimum wage, it makes automation more effective in comparison. Which is why in NYC when they raised the minimum wage for fast food workers, most of the people at McDonald's who used to take orders just got replaced with kiosks. This is in effect a subsidy for the tech companies that automate labor, like the company that makes the McDonald's kiosks.

Higher wages might make it easier to make a business case for installing kiosks, but it does nothing to lower the price of the kiosks. I don't see how it qualifies as a "subsidy".

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#253

Post by TrackerFF »

mullingitover wrote: post #9

Minimum wage isn't just flat for a decade, it's not being adjusted for inflation. This means minimum wage workers have been getting a pay cut over time. The debate isn't just whether we should raise minimum wage, it's whether we should be cutting it. By allowing it to remain stagnant we're making the default decision to cut.

> Minimum wage isn't just flat for a decade, it's not being adjusted for inflation. This means minimum wage workers have been getting a pay cut over time.

All while necessities like rent / housing has increased faster than inflation.

No wonder lots of minimum wage people have multiple jobs. Pay stays the same, but rent goes up $50/month every year - without any changes.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#254

Post by krnlpnc »

usepgp wrote: post #234
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what year?

I did as well (in massachusetts in 2016)

With all respect to your experience, comparing a college roommate situation to a FTE earning minimum wage is a bit apples to oranges IMO. Students are eligible for many benefits including health care, and have a finite period of time (typically in their youth) until graduation. Whereas a minimum wage worker may be living on this amount with marginal raises for their whole life. Think about having a marriage and kids all while living in your college room indefinitely.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#255

Post by jancsika »

aianus wrote: post #211
krnlpnc wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimum wage works out to about $2500/mo before taxes where I live. That’s not enough to pay for rent, utilities, food and incidentals. Not to mention insurance(s). Not to mention a car if your commute requires it. Not to mention family/dependents. Not to mention emergency savings. Not to mention retirement. The list goes on. It’s not about a “much more than comfortable lifestyle”. It’s about establishing a baseline…

That’s nuts, I lived a luxurious life in college on less than that. It’s certainly enough money for a room and food and a car and savings left over in nearly every US municipality.

2500/month

- 400 taxes

- 600 rent (at least there's a listing for something at that price in San Jose, whether it's legit or not I don't know...)

- 0 car (Happy Birthday, college student)

- 100 gas

- 125 groceries (warning: not luxurious!)

- 440 health care

- 100 electricity

- 60 water

- 16 netflix premium (you said luxurious)

- 13 amazon prime

- 46 gym membership

- 30 internet

- 160 clothing

- 125 car insurance

- 0 car repairs (you lucked out this month)

= 285

Dating?

130 dating

= 155

- 350 car payment. (Happy Birthday, full grown adult.)

= -195

+ 130 impending breakup

- 0 alcohol (you lucked out this breakup)

= -65 savings

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#256

Post by baron816 »

petra wrote: post #44
baron816 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what a lot of economists in the news say TV economists are definitely a different breed. Most real labor economists acknowledge that the issue is tricky. I (not an economist) don’t like the minimum wage since it’s really a poor tool for the job. Society agrees that people should have a minimum standard of living, but then place the burden of providing that standard on a very narrow range of businesses. That burden…

There are plenty of ways to view the role of businesses in society. One particular way is "the triple bottom line": part of running a business is a responsibility for taking care of your employees, your community and the environment. And minimum wage laws are a part of that.

Ok. I’m not a corporatists.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#258

Post by ben509 »

poke111 wrote: post #67
jonhendry18 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I think is that the anti-increase people would have predicted that raising the minimum wage would be such a dire threat to business that it would decrease employment regardless of the wider economy.

Not exactly. If the market-clearing price for low-skill labor is already above the minimum wage, it will have no effect. If the market price is far below the minimum wage, it will have a large effect - positive for the workers with jobs, negative for the ones who are priced out or have their hours cut.

But there is an effect. We're telling people "you both want to enter into this contract, and there's nothing illegal or fraudulent about it, but if you do it, at least one of you is going to jail." That's morally indefensible.

Grand schemes to fix society by making an income distribution curve on a spreadsheet look pretty don't mean squat compared to your neighbors' rights.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#259

Post by germinalphrase »

Alex3917 wrote: post #230
danmaz74 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Higher minimum wage is a subsidy for tech companies though By which mechanism?

When you raise the minimum wage, it makes automation more effective in comparison. Which is why in NYC when they raised the minimum wage for fast food workers, most of the people at McDonald's who used to take orders just got replaced with kiosks. This is in effect a subsidy for the tech companies that automate labor, like the company that makes the McDonald's kiosks.

If minimum wage becomes a living wage then there are more people capable of accepting jobs that are needed and more difficult to automate - for instance, caregivers.

Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true

#260

Post by bb88 »

klipklop wrote: post #155
bb88 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm cynical. I think it's frankly worse than that. When we talk about economic and market forces, we don't talk about "greed" as a major economic force. We know it's the creation of capitalism, but economists seem to do everything in their power to ignore it. Standard economic models breaks down when people are powerful enough to create their own supply/demand curves. We've had the term "working poor" for a while. I…

The working homeless already exist Los Angeles/California. There are more than a few employed people, with kids, living in their cars. https://www.kqed.org/news/11690325/thousands-of-californians... https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-economicall...

But that's LA/California right? Thousands is not millions, and California is not the US.
Post reply on HN