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I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

blind.guru

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Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#161

Post by joshuamorton »

addicted44 wrote: post #147
ppod wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mistake you are making is that you are trying to answer the question of what the average user wants by looking at what you want. Developers are not representative of users.

The average user, by Google's own studies, wants a faster experience. By far. Is there any evidence that web apps of today are faster in achieving what equivalent non appy web pages of the past managed? Despite the fact that those older "apps" were running on computers which were orders of magnitude slower than our cell phones today. I've worked with 2 companies now where their users (and both these companies have us…

Yes and no: Ajax allows interactive (snappier/faster) behavior in most cases, especially for complex interaction flows. Using the minimal html Gmail interface vs the modern one, the modern one is quicker for complex interactions because I end up loading fewer pages,even if the average load is more expensive.

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#162

Post by anoncake »

UncleMeat wrote: post #75
dotancohen wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A faster horse. People value privacy when made aware of the issue, but very few people are aware of how websites track (and manipulate) them.

I feel like this claim needs support. All of the studies I'm aware of that ask people to choose between different price points based on privacy end up showing minimal valuing of privacy.

There's a difference between valuing privacy and being willing to pay an extortion fee.

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#163

Post by duskwuff »

waynecochran wrote: post #159
duskwuff wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind users do not, as a rule, use Lynx. This is a common misconception. The Lynx interface is, in fact, very poorly suited for visually impaired users, as it relies heavily on visual layout, color, and cursor positioning to convey information. The majority of blind users use standard desktop web browsers with screen reader addons like JAWS or VoiceOver.

Are you saying the OP is lying about being blind or is a fake?

Perhaps I spoke a little too broadly. What I meant is that the bulk of blind users don't use lynx. This particular one appears to -- sometimes? -- but this usage is not typical.

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#164

Post by nonbirithm »

earenndil wrote: post #53

Try googler https://github.com/jarun/googler

googler no longer works either. I went to use it and got no results. Since they just scrape the results page a layout change is probably going to break everything.

This issue was opened recently for it.

https://github.com/jarun/googler/issues/306

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#165

Post by TeMPOraL »

nonbirithm wrote: post #156
TeMPOraL wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cop-out. Being a developer and a long-time computer user biases me, but also gives me a more informed perspective on what's productive and ergonomic, and what's distracting and annoying. I can name the issues I see, instead of writing off the frustration as "this computer must have viruses" or "this is just how things have to be". Bloat because of inefficient design isn't delivering any value to regular peop…

This makes me wonder. If we could have all of the SPA and frontend framework overcomplication and the ability to make four asynchronous loading screens to load what could be rendered server side as an HTML table with a navbar instead - if we had all of that technological progress two decades ago, would we have seen what benefits it would give over minimalist design, if any? Sometimes it feels like the web of yore was…

> Maybe as more and more features get added to a piece of technology, there's some kind of default instinct that some people have to always fully exercise all of it even if it's not at all necessary.

I suspect this is very true. It seems true in my experience. I think the reason may be just that our field is so young and dynamic, that everyone learns everything on the job. If you want to stay up to date, you have to gain experience with the new tools, and the best way to do it is to find a way to make using them a part of your job. It saves you time after work, and you even get paid for it.

It takes good judgement to experiment with new technologies on the job without compromising the product one's working on. I feel that for most developers, the concerns of end-users rarely enter the picture when making these calls.

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#166

Post by TeMPOraL »

joshuamorton wrote: post #161
addicted44 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average user, by Google's own studies, wants a faster experience. By far. Is there any evidence that web apps of today are faster in achieving what equivalent non appy web pages of the past managed? Despite the fact that those older "apps" were running on computers which were orders of magnitude slower than our cell phones today. I've worked with 2 companies now where their users (and both these companies have us…

Yes and no: Ajax allows interactive (snappier/faster) behavior in most cases, especially for complex interaction flows. Using the minimal html Gmail interface vs the modern one, the modern one is quicker for complex interactions because I end up loading fewer pages,even if the average load is more expensive.

It doesn't feel faster to me. And that's the case with Ajax in general - in principle, it can allow for snappier, faster experience. In practice, it rarely does.

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#167

Post by mumblemumble »

jrockway wrote: post #7

I feel like many of the text-mode browsers have failed to keep up with changing web standards. We were all mad when IE was holding back the Internet, and I'm not sure we should give lynx and w3m a pass because they're geek tools. (Accessibility is an important concern, but web browsers running under a GUI system support screen readers.) https://www.brow.sh/ is a console-based browser that claims to support modern sta…

> We were all mad when IE was holding back the Internet

As I recall it, we weren't mad about IE "holding back the Internet", we were mad about IE encouraging web designers to stick a bunch of dynamic clutter such as ActiveX controls into their webpages. Largely because they created this lock-in where sites only worked well on one browser.

It turns out that JavaScript has been co-opted into being the new ActiveX, and Chrome is the new IE. But since JavaScript is nominally an open standard, and Chrome runs on the big 3 OSes, nobody seems to get mad that alternative browser projects are dying because they can't keep up with all the stuff that needs to be implemented in order to work well with sites that were only tested on Chrome and WebKit.

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#168

Post by jolmg »

jld wrote: post #157
dredmorbius wrote: post #112

There used to be a saying in a11y circles, "Google is a blind user".[1] Now Google are manifestly anti-blind-user. Shouldn't be anything a major ADA lawsuit couldn't fix. Meantime, DDG is actually pretty damned good. For console users: https://duckduckgo.com/lite ________________________________ Notes: 1. https://www.w3.org/2006/Talks/06-08-steven-web40/

Is there a way to make DDG Lite chrome's default search engine? Chrome seems to let me create non-default search engines, set the full DDG as the default, but not set lite as the default.

The problem is that the search query does not go in the URL in the Lite version. That really sucks. It makes it useless in the browser history as well. In fact, because all the URLs are the same on each query, they're not even added as separate entries in the history.

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#169

Post by jcelerier »

blauditore wrote: post #38
TeMPOraL wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be the first (EDIT: third) of six. > If all that stuff works for everyone, why did we invent new stuff? Just because? Or perhaps it wasn't really as amazing as well all remember. To better track people and push ads. It's really mostly just it. Modern web has very little to do with providing value to the end-user; any utility that's provided is mostly a side effect, and/or a vector to lure people into situations…

Come on, you can't be serious about this. Creating sophisticated web pages is massively easier than 10 or 20 years ago. Yes, HTML of plain simple text-only pages is still pretty much the same, but most users actually prefer visually fancier content with pictures and colors. Yes, companies presenting themselvses online profit of more capabilities. And yes, presenting ads is probably easier too. But if you think those…

is it now ? my parents whom were 100% tech illiterate were able to put up a moderately complex website with frontpage in 1996 without touching a single line of code and with a 100% custom look. Would they be able to do the same today with current tech stacks ? Not so sure...

Re: I am no longer able to use Google with Lynx

#170

Post by repiret »

dredmorbius wrote: post #112

There used to be a saying in a11y circles, "Google is a blind user".[1] Now Google are manifestly anti-blind-user. Shouldn't be anything a major ADA lawsuit couldn't fix. Meantime, DDG is actually pretty damned good. For console users: https://duckduckgo.com/lite ________________________________ Notes: 1. https://www.w3.org/2006/Talks/06-08-steven-web40/

a11y = accessibility; I had to look it up so I'll save everyone else the trouble.
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