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TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

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Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#121

Post by rhizome »

samirillian wrote: post #62
pgeorgi wrote: post #4

Their approach to moderation is unusual in that they don't even pretend to be a neutral platform and as such it's a powerful differentiator to businesses that are rooted in a "free speech" culture. Shadow-banning individual posts ("Visible to self") is relatively unusual and acts as a demotivator to publish controversial content because such content doesn't drive engagement, as is actively demoting entire classes of…

I think this is actually a pretty good model. I still dream of that perfect federated network that allows as complete autonomy as possible and finally kills both email and facebook messenger, but until then at least some people can have some joy in life.

Step 1: define "complete autonomy"

Step 2: create tools to enable user control and configuration

Step 3: update your will to require that this work-in-progress be left to someone who will continue your attempt after you die.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#122

Post by microcolonel »

dang wrote: post #117
microcolonel wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonetheless, when defending the CCP, one is often wrong. CCP literally has rape-and-torture camps where people die suspiciously and graciously donate their organs. With regard to african countries, it kinda matters which ones you're talking about: there's a world of difference between the DRC and Ghana.

Please don't take the thread further into nationalistic flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

My comment is on andrepd's meta topic of: “I don't like that HNers tend to focus on negative or critical things about China, Russia, or Africa when these topics arise.”.

My comment is "new" in that, in this thread, what I've said was not yet said in response to this specific complaint. My comment is related to the thread, and not generic (it mentions the characters introduced by the parent thread [China, Africa, criticism thereof] by name). My basic point is that it's not surprising that HNers recall an apparent genocide in progress when talking about its location.

I have read those guidelines front to back at least ten times, Dan. I still can't predict how to predict what passes and what doesn't.

When people hurl personal abuse at me; they emerge unscathed.

When I criticize a political party's policy of genocidal prison camps, without criticizing any nation/people; it's deemed to contribute to "nationalistic flamewar". I take special care not to make a value judgement about any nations, and it's deemed to contribute to "nationalistic flamewar".

Strictly speaking, given that most things that people do occur inside, or relating to, nations: what criticism or affirmation of anything doesn't contribute to "nationalistic flamewar"?

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#123

Post by cortic »

CPLX wrote: post #109
pgeorgi wrote: post #4

Their approach to moderation is unusual in that they don't even pretend to be a neutral platform and as such it's a powerful differentiator to businesses that are rooted in a "free speech" culture. Shadow-banning individual posts ("Visible to self") is relatively unusual and acts as a demotivator to publish controversial content because such content doesn't drive engagement, as is actively demoting entire classes of…

I mean I’m as much a fan of free speech as the next guy, but there are some pretty key differences between the concepts of “free speech in the culture” and “a giant collection of unmoderated user generated internet content”. I mean actual free speech would just be an endless collection of penis videos. Nobody is actually advocating for free speech. I don’t think every app has to be about political issues. Where did t…

>I mean actual free speech would just be an endless collection of penis videos.

It is the oldest problem in the book; how do i get free expression, while forcing everyone one else to agree with me?

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#124

Post by catalogia »

echelon wrote: post #96
pgeorgi wrote: post #4

Their approach to moderation is unusual in that they don't even pretend to be a neutral platform and as such it's a powerful differentiator to businesses that are rooted in a "free speech" culture. Shadow-banning individual posts ("Visible to self") is relatively unusual and acts as a demotivator to publish controversial content because such content doesn't drive engagement, as is actively demoting entire classes of…

Could a theoretical new US-based competitor lobby to have TikTok removed from the app store as it is a tool of the CCP? TikTok seems easy to defeat if you were to use the law to ban it.

A theoretical company could theoretically lobby for literally anything, including for the moon to be replaced with a wheel of cheese. Whether their lobbying would be productive is another matter.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#125

Post by giggles_giggles »

CPLX wrote: post #119
wildmusings wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean actual free speech would just be an endless collection of penis videos. I agree with the main thrust of your post, but to nitpick, American free speech jurisprudence is not so daft. Where some restrictions are necessary, the principle of “viewpoint neutrality” still works to prohibit censorship. So, where the government allows pro-abortion expression, it must also allow anti-abortion expression. And this app…

Yeah I get it. But like it’s fine for Flyertalk.com to be about frequent flier programs, and for Woodweb.com to stick to discussions of router bits and edge banding. It seems to me that the reason people are applying some kind of double standard to Tik Tok is because it’s Chinese. But like it’s fine to make an app for kids to share only positive light hearted videos and keep it focused on that. But of course the more…

It's not hypocritical to look at a Chinese app and question the motives of the censors there. Obviously their censors are controlled by the CCP. I dont have children yet but if I did they would not be allowed on TikTok, period.

But then, I also think the free world shouldn't do business with the Communist Chinese. So that's just my opinion.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#126

Post by CPLX »

giggles_giggles wrote: post #125
CPLX wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I get it. But like it’s fine for Flyertalk.com to be about frequent flier programs, and for Woodweb.com to stick to discussions of router bits and edge banding. It seems to me that the reason people are applying some kind of double standard to Tik Tok is because it’s Chinese. But like it’s fine to make an app for kids to share only positive light hearted videos and keep it focused on that. But of course the more…

It's not hypocritical to look at a Chinese app and question the motives of the censors there. Obviously their censors are controlled by the CCP. I dont have children yet but if I did they would not be allowed on TikTok, period. But then, I also think the free world shouldn't do business with the Communist Chinese. So that's just my opinion.

> the free world

lol

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#127

Post by emmelaich »

CPLX wrote: post #109
pgeorgi wrote: post #4

Their approach to moderation is unusual in that they don't even pretend to be a neutral platform and as such it's a powerful differentiator to businesses that are rooted in a "free speech" culture. Shadow-banning individual posts ("Visible to self") is relatively unusual and acts as a demotivator to publish controversial content because such content doesn't drive engagement, as is actively demoting entire classes of…

I mean I’m as much a fan of free speech as the next guy, but there are some pretty key differences between the concepts of “free speech in the culture” and “a giant collection of unmoderated user generated internet content”. I mean actual free speech would just be an endless collection of penis videos. Nobody is actually advocating for free speech. I don’t think every app has to be about political issues. Where did t…

You have a darker view of human nature than most.

I mean, unmoderated, anonymous contents might have more penis vids than you want, but it doesn't mean that you have to watch them; a user sponsored moderation / rating would ensure that.

If that wasn't possible, who would use the app except for penis enthusiasts?

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#128

Post by yoz-y »

emmelaich wrote: post #127
CPLX wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I’m as much a fan of free speech as the next guy, but there are some pretty key differences between the concepts of “free speech in the culture” and “a giant collection of unmoderated user generated internet content”. I mean actual free speech would just be an endless collection of penis videos. Nobody is actually advocating for free speech. I don’t think every app has to be about political issues. Where did t…

You have a darker view of human nature than most. I mean, unmoderated, anonymous contents might have more penis vids than you want, but it doesn't mean that you have to watch them; a user sponsored moderation / rating would ensure that. If that wasn't possible, who would use the app except for penis enthusiasts?

That is how Chatroulette died.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#130

Post by CPLX »

emmelaich wrote: post #127
CPLX wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I’m as much a fan of free speech as the next guy, but there are some pretty key differences between the concepts of “free speech in the culture” and “a giant collection of unmoderated user generated internet content”. I mean actual free speech would just be an endless collection of penis videos. Nobody is actually advocating for free speech. I don’t think every app has to be about political issues. Where did t…

You have a darker view of human nature than most. I mean, unmoderated, anonymous contents might have more penis vids than you want, but it doesn't mean that you have to watch them; a user sponsored moderation / rating would ensure that. If that wasn't possible, who would use the app except for penis enthusiasts?

> You have a darker view of human nature than most.

Nah I’ve just been hanging around the internet a lot longer than most people.

I can’t take credit for the concept of infinite penises though, that honor goes to my friend Pud:

https://askpud.wordpress.com/2007/11/20/pageviews-and-unique...

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