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What I have learned from my suicidal patients

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Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that helped me with decades of depression was real hope. And even then it took years of having hope with lots of support from family (generic support in life, I kept my depression a secret) before I finally beat depression. I've been free of suicidal thoughts for about 6 or 7 years now. I don't think there is a short cut. Keep working at it. Look for reasons to keep fighting and you will find them even…

What do you mean by 'real hope'? Just curious.

I hesitate to give a specific answer here, because I think many people will find different things are "hope" for them. And if I give what I found it will come off as unhelpful.

When I was young I nearly succeeding is ending my life (early teens) and at that moment I knew I didn't truly want to die, but I so desperately needed the pain to end. So going down wasn't an answer, I had to keep going up no matter what and I tried to find any reason I could to keep going. This didn't stop my attempts, but it slowed them down some, and so I floated in a destructive despair for years while I tried to figure things out.

I have seen other people turn things around for themselves and it really turned out to be that everyone that did was looking for something important. And I don't mean figuratively here, they actually took real action, real effort to find something, anything, any reason to keep going.

And that is why I know this is so hard, because when you are in the deep end of despair, the last thing you have motivation for is to put effort into something that will make you feel better in a few years, or even tomorrow. But it's the only way out that I found.

Eventually I found a number of reasons that I really needed to stay alive. None of them on their own were enough, but I found that all of them together were enough on some days to get me out of bed or to put the knife down. That's not much motivation or hope, but it was a start. And I kept adding a little bit at a time. I reminded myself constantly, especially at my worst, that it's better to pull a splinter out than leave it in. I will feel better if I trust what I have already proven is true, even if I don't feel it right now. Especially if I don't feel it...

So, what is real hope? Something you know is true, even if you don't feel like believing it's true. There are people that would be better off for you being alive than dead. That is a grain of sand of hope for others that gives you something back. It's a start.

I made rules for myself, things I could say to myself, some multiple times a day. These things are all true, and I've proved them to myself time and time again, and I use them to overcome despair and overwhelming emotions that will wreck my day. Here's a few.

-Everything is ok right now. I am fine.

I say this when I feel like everything is going to fall apart today. But right now, in this moment, then next 30 seconds or whatever, it's ok and this is true every time I say it. I have a house, food, I have a wife and kids, I have work. Right now, in this moment everything is ok. It can get me out of the worst moments.

-I can do this one thing. (I don't have to face everything right now)

This is how I get myself out of bed and into the shower every day. (I say, "I can take a shower, I can handle this one thing") Even though I am no longer suicidal (a life altering thing) I still deal with massive waves of emotions that I must battle, but I win every battle one at a time. I remind myself that I like sitting under the warm shower and I will enjoy it when I am done. And I know it's better that my kids see a functional adult, and my co-workers don't have a smelly bum next to them. All of this are tiny things to look forward to in the future that help me do something right now.

-Don't make things worse.

I say this to convince myself not to make a destructive decision, because it will make tomorrow harder for me. Something as simple as drinking too much, or staying up too late with entertainment, anything that will make tomorrow harder is just going to allow despair to creep back in.

-I don't get to have this.

There are some things (as I have gotten older) I realize I just don't get to have, and I need to be ok with this. And often times that means, I don't get to feel happy right now. I can feel happy later. This helps me make better long term decisions.

-It's worth doing this.

I remind myself that every time I have done the right thing it has paid off. I know I will feel better at the end of the day if I get work done instead of collapsing into bed. Even if I feel horrible all day, I will be better off and grateful for making the decision later.

-I am scared of this so I have to do it.

Most of what stopped me from doing things that helped me vs things that hurt me was I was scared to do them. But the few times I was in a corner and had to do something scary, I was grateful I had made it through afterwards. So now if I can do something scary without my back in a corner, then I know I will be better off later. (something that can be scary is just talking to my wife about something personal, it doesn't have to be a big thing to be scary) I don't use this rule to make foolish decisions, I logically know I shouldn't do "everything" that I am scared of...

-There are people that need me today.

I have found that the most important element to turning things around was to do _more_ in my life not less. Less is staying in bed all day because I just can't move. And this has been a lot of days for me. I figured this was better than offing myself, and that is true. And when I put myself in a position where people needed, something that is really hard to do, it gave me motivation to keep going. It's frequently scary and unpleasant, but I have proved it works at helping me stay alive.

-I did poorly and things didn't go well. I am sorry and I will try and do better.

I found that if I openly acknowledge my failures to myself, that I can face them better. And if I admit them openly to others, I always (so far) have gotten support and understanding. This has been a life line when I have fallen apart and I simply couldn't do what I should have done. I say sorry to people and tell them what I will do to fix what I messed up. This is humbling but helps with my other rule "don't make things worse".

-Get something done, anything.

I found that if I can get myself to do _anything_ at all done, it will make nearly impossible tasks look a little more possible. This applies to work but also with my relationships. There are things I really want to turn around with my marriage, but right now I just can't. But I have made progress in the past, and I know that if I can get one thing better, it will be better for both of us. Success of any kind seems to be a lubricant for more success, and getting started is so hard and painful that sometimes all I can do is just one tiny, tiny thing. And I have to remember that that is really valuable, and that I should do it.

I imagine other people will make their own rules and find things in their life worth living for. You just can't give up and you have to actively look for something good.

This got really long, but maybe there is something here that will help someone else. Sorry if this didn't answer your question well.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#142

I have bit to share about being suicidal as a lifetime pursuit. I decided around 11 years old that I wasn’t going to participate in life and essentially committed soft suicide. I’ve had decades of persistent suicidal desire since then. In the past year, I’ve given away all of my money (less than a million bucks). Just gave away a few thousand to a business owner yesterday who was being cheap and petty. Told him to do…

> Can’t imagine my mind is always controlling iPhones secret CIA enabled Ouija board autocorrect troll mechanism.

If you're serious about any of this, and believe what you said is true, you're currently experiencing active psychosis. These are not the words of somebody who is rationally considering suicide.

If that's truly the case, odds are you'll be in a 100% different mindset after a few months of medical/psychological help. Seek it.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#143
post #142

I have bit to share about being suicidal as a lifetime pursuit. I decided around 11 years old that I wasn’t going to participate in life and essentially committed soft suicide. I’ve had decades of persistent suicidal desire since then. In the past year, I’ve given away all of my money (less than a million bucks). Just gave away a few thousand to a business owner yesterday who was being cheap and petty. Told him to do…

> Can’t imagine my mind is always controlling iPhones secret CIA enabled Ouija board autocorrect troll mechanism. If you're serious about any of this, and believe what you said is true, you're currently experiencing active psychosis. These are not the words of somebody who is rationally considering suicide. If that's truly the case, odds are you'll be in a 100% different mindset after a few months of medical/psycholo…

Serious about what? That the auto correct happened? I have no idea why my hands always end up typing such troll shit. At the least it’s incompetence by Apple.

Don’t talk to me about active theories based on an unreliable internet post.

Don’t talk to me about your theories on what constitutes “serious suicide planning” in the context of obviously absurd theories about apples garbage auto correct mechanism.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#144
post #142

I have bit to share about being suicidal as a lifetime pursuit. I decided around 11 years old that I wasn’t going to participate in life and essentially committed soft suicide. I’ve had decades of persistent suicidal desire since then. In the past year, I’ve given away all of my money (less than a million bucks). Just gave away a few thousand to a business owner yesterday who was being cheap and petty. Told him to do…

> Can’t imagine my mind is always controlling iPhones secret CIA enabled Ouija board autocorrect troll mechanism. If you're serious about any of this, and believe what you said is true, you're currently experiencing active psychosis. These are not the words of somebody who is rationally considering suicide. If that's truly the case, odds are you'll be in a 100% different mindset after a few months of medical/psycholo…

Your tone is why I’m gone. You talk to me like a fucking goddamn jerk. I didn’t ask for your medical advice. Telling me imperatively to “seek it” is indicative of your hubris and provincial viewpoint of the world. You’re in zero position to know what technology is out there in the wild. It’s a system bigger than you and me. And it was blindly obvious that my theory was to goad people like you who would obviously jump on the offensive regarding “mental illness”.

I don’t like you talking to me that way. I’d like to be left alone. As stated. Spare your armchair diagnosis and condescending response. Please.

I really detest people like you: your mindset, your condescension, your tone. Please. Do not respond to me at all anymore. Please.

This is a request to anyone reading this to not respond to my post with any theories about mental stuff, suggestions to seek help, etc.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A broken, broke, barely breathing husk who doesn't have the energy for basic tasks often cannot be an activist. I don't have the ability to do that in addition to surviving. While I agree with social democracy I am not someone who is in a position to fight politics. My stress coping ability is paper thin. My basic needs are in constant threat and shortage. It also will not change here in time for me. My only chance i…

Your story alone is enough to make you an effective activist. There is nothing more powerful than lived experience. You may be surprised at the amount of help that you will be able to find if you go to the people who are fighting to prevent what you've gone through from happening. There is support out there for people who truly want things to change. I understand the desire to get away. I understand the reluctance to…

I think this is the last post I am going to make because I find myself feeling nothing but anger, resentment, defensiveness as even well meaning people don't get it and keep saying things I feel I have to explain and justify because for some reason I still care about proving I am not a jerk, crazy, wrong somehow and fighting the idea that this is my fault or I am not doing enough or I somehow failed. I did not. I was failed.

>There is support out there for people who truly want things >to change.

A lifetime of experience tells me otherwise. What is out there is insufficient. I don't need promises of a brighter future. I don't need cheerleading. I don't need vague ideas of what should be or what someone believes can be. I need practical realities now.

>Do you not at least want to find out if you could have made >a difference?

This is deeply offensive and makes me want to scream. I DID make a difference in the ways I could. I spent my life helping in my work and doing what I could in my personal life. I walked the talk of social issues. I was ethical and honest. That I am now needing help, needing rescue rather than being the rescuer. You don't ask a drowning person to hold up a sign as they go under to highlight the dangers of swimming in the ocean. That I don't have the bandwidth to add MORE work and stress to an already overwhelmed life does not diminish that. I did my part.

End of line.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#146
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can’t imagine my mind is always controlling iPhones secret CIA enabled Ouija board autocorrect troll mechanism. If you're serious about any of this, and believe what you said is true, you're currently experiencing active psychosis. These are not the words of somebody who is rationally considering suicide. If that's truly the case, odds are you'll be in a 100% different mindset after a few months of medical/psycholo…

Serious about what? That the auto correct happened? I have no idea why my hands always end up typing such troll shit. At the least it’s incompetence by Apple. Don’t talk to me about active theories based on an unreliable internet post. Don’t talk to me about your theories on what constitutes “serious suicide planning” in the context of obviously absurd theories about apples garbage auto correct mechanism.

Just for the record, my iPhone autocorrected my attempt to type the word “handle” to “ya die”.

It’s not a phrase that I ever use, so it’s unclear to me how that became a first choice candidate for Apple’s autocorrect mechanism.

Being in the middle of writing a suicide note, having Apple make such an autocorrection is, at the least, unwanted incompetence. “Ya die” isn’t something I want to see emanating from Apple’s autocorrect mechanism, ever - whether in the middle of a suicide note or not.

There’s also a huge disconnect here. Just because I say some absurd theory about mkultra in the 21st century, doesn’t mean I seriously believe it. I just observe and fit in theories like everyone else trying to make sense of their limited perception reality. Jumping on the mental illness attack bandwagon is most of why I’m out of here. If that’s how I’m perceived, just for stating a non-serious theory, then I’m thankful to almost be dead.

No common ground. Take notes, if you seriously want to figure out how to relate to someone who thinks like I do, someone who truly is at the end.

This isn’t a cry for help for me. It’s to help others understand my point of view to help others before they get to my age. I’m not going to change.

No advice, please.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious about what? That the auto correct happened? I have no idea why my hands always end up typing such troll shit. At the least it’s incompetence by Apple. Don’t talk to me about active theories based on an unreliable internet post. Don’t talk to me about your theories on what constitutes “serious suicide planning” in the context of obviously absurd theories about apples garbage auto correct mechanism.

Just for the record, my iPhone autocorrected my attempt to type the word “handle” to “ya die”. It’s not a phrase that I ever use, so it’s unclear to me how that became a first choice candidate for Apple’s autocorrect mechanism. Being in the middle of writing a suicide note, having Apple make such an autocorrection is, at the least, unwanted incompetence. “Ya die” isn’t something I want to see emanating from Apple’s a…

Ref: charter pgp akin and the rest. Not a drill.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#148
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used it so I can better cope with autism. Has it actually worked? Your post outlines all of the bad things you've experienced, but has it, on the balance of things, been worth it?

TL;DR: psychiatrist and apothecary need to evaluate that in my country. If it wasn't worth it, I'd have quit long ago. The alcohol side effect, for example, is annoying. However being tired for weeks, and muscle pain having more severe impact, that was and is highly annoying. To answer your question though. According to myself: Yes. According to the people around me: Yes. The people around me are more positive about…

Thanks, this was interesting. I'm also autistic but have been lucky enough to adapt my life around it (short commute, private office, understanding people I delegate to, live in a very small quiet city, etc. so public transport is not even an option.) Taking medication isn't something I want to do, but I'm interested to know how/if it's working for others.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newer antidepressants have less/different side-effects compared to older antidepressants like Prozac. 5-HT1A agonism relieves a lot of symptoms commonly associated with SSRIs, so does antagonism of 5-HT2A, 5-HT2C (Prozac does this), 5-HT3, 5-HT7 and certain adrenergic receptors. Some newer drugs target these receptors.

Are 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C related to 5-HT2B at all? Don't psychedelics like LSD, DMT, and MDMA non-selectively target those receptors?

Traditional psychedelics are 5-HT2A agonists, while 5-HT2A antagonism or inverse agonism is associated with an anxiolytic and antidepressant effect.

Certain psychedelics like psilocybin are 5-HT2C agonists, which is responsible for the anxiety, dysphoria and nausea that some people experience when they consume it.

> Are 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C related to 5-HT2B at all?

You'd really need to look at in vivo binding profiles when it comes to serotonergic drugs. Some drugs are selective for other receptor subtypes compared to 5-HT2B, others aren't. Almost all antidepressants are tested for 5-HT2B affinity because of the association with heart disease and birth defects, and because of the lawsuits that resulted from them.

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