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TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

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Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#81

Post by geekamongus »

fwxwi wrote: post #7

TikTok is, as the title says, a social network for cheerfulness and fun. I don't use it, but I can understand they outright ban politics: 1) they avoid becoming the vile cesspool Twitter has become, 2) they avoid being asked by governments around the world to take down posts, 3) they avoid being targeted in propaganda campaigns.

I've seen at least a dozen pro-Trump videos in my For You timeline since I joined TikTok a few weeks ago. Haven't seen any dissenting views or posts, and I have stayed away from politics myself.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#82

Post by hoorayimhelping »

_akei wrote: post #39
oefrha wrote: post #13

I fail to see why every platform has to become a fucking idealogical battleground. If I’m in the market for a social network myself (HN notwithstanding) I’d probably choose a politics-free one if possible.

Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I feel even Reddit is better when coming to political debates because on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns to your political ideology. On HN, if you are from China, India, Russia, African country, the best thing you can do is to avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative and any dissenting view will be downvoted until…

>At least on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns with your political and ideological views. Unlike here where you have to understand that your political views will be suppressed if it doesn’t align to the majority.

Maybe I'm seeing different things than you are, but when I see "alternative" view points being downvoted, it's not because their viewpoints are "wrong" it's cause the comment is pure shit, and contains logical fallacies and personal attacks out the wazoo.

This particular comment wags a finger at the community, and is essentially making the point that "nobody here listens to alternative viewpoints, and if you disagree with my comment, it's cause your own political agenda is biasing you." It basically dismisses offhand anyone who isn't completely on board with its ideology:

>Unlike here where you have to understand that your political views will be suppressed if it doesn’t align to the majority... If you don’t notice that agenda, know that it is because it aligns with your own political agenda.

I mean look at how the comment starts:

>Did you just call Hacker News apolitical?

Yes. We all read it. This whole, "your comment is so absurd that I have to question it," is condescending bullshit. Not everyone comes into the discussion with the same context as you, and condescending to people who may not see the world the same as you in this way turns off a lot of people here who are trying to be open minded to other view points.

You definitely get dinged a _point or two_ of karma when you have radical viewpoints (anyone who comments here knows this). But huge downvotes turning the comment invisible come when the comment is trash, not when the message is just so offensive to the community that everyone has to silence it.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#83

Post by UweSchmidt »

friendlybus wrote: post #78
UweSchmidt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demanding to discuss politics at all times could be the position of a vocal minority hoping to have disproportionate impact. It is derailing topics and ultimately trolling. Many food related discussions on reddit ignore both health and animal rights considerations. Would it be appropriate to bring these topics up each time someone posts their burger? Likely not

Just saying the categories are always there. It could be the position of a vocal minority, but also of the government that seeks to change what you are doing politically, or a mass uprising wishing to change what you do. Control will always exist, so I think it just needs to be integrated into a small order that can be managed, rather than jump into one of the always/never/any categories to stonewall it.

I don't mind a moderate, organic dose of politics.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#84

Post by oefrha »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #82
_akei wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I feel even Reddit is better when coming to political debates because on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns to your political ideology. On HN, if you are from China, India, Russia, African country, the best thing you can do is to avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative and any dissenting view will be downvoted until…

> At least on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns with your political and ideological views. Unlike here where you have to understand that your political views will be suppressed if it doesn’t align to the majority. Maybe I'm seeing different things than you are, but when I see "alternative" view points being downvoted, it's not because their viewpoints are "wrong" it's cause the comment is pure shit, and con…

> Not everyone comes into the discussion with the same context as you, and condescending to people who may not see the world the same as you in this way turns off a lot of people here who are trying to be open minded to other view points.

I’ve definitely seen people trying to share context, and they are called government-sponsored trolls by some and downvoted to oblivion. Then they get frustrated and make more sour/coarse comments and now they’re accused of not sharing context. It’s a negative feedback loop.

Just because you may not have engaged in it doesn’t mean certain opinions aren’t suppressed. (Now some will tell me those opinions are simply wrong and deserve to be suppressed. To which I have no answer. You can’t convince someone who’s already made up their mind.)

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#85

Post by yowlingcat »

jessaustin wrote: post #57
navaati wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Ireland there is an implicit rule that at the pub you don’t talk politics or work, looks similar…

I can understand excluding politics, but why are we drinking if it's not to lubricate our complaining about work? In what context is it acceptable for the Irish to complain about work?

One could be drinking to lubricate complaining about one's home life! Perhaps the state of society! Ah, I'm only mildly joking...

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#86

Post by oefrha »

yorwba wrote: post #54
_akei wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I feel even Reddit is better when coming to political debates because on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns to your political ideology. On HN, if you are from China, India, Russia, African country, the best thing you can do is to avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative and any dissenting view will be downvoted until…

> avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative Comments on most topics skew negative. If you agree with something, that's not much reason to comment, but if you disagree , one angry comment coming straight up. That's not limited to the geographical regions you list; most threads on those have a subthread devolve into a discussion of US politics at some point. > and any di…

Single-purpose accounts that are in the black typically post more concerting or at least ambivalent comments than dissenting ones.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#87

Post by ahakki »

I recently featured in a music video of a friend who is a rapper. We posted a clip of it on a new tik tok account he made to promote his music to the youths. it was deleted within seconds. presumably due to feauring a realistic prop gun. the audio wasn't a problem (lyrics include "fuck the police" and "acab") as I could post harmless videos with the same track on my account. But that clip with the prop gun gets deleted instantly, even if you heavily filter it (crop, duotone, colorshift). so their ai detector seems pretty good.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#88

Post by Faark »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #72
Faark wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think of it this way [..] Yes, being politically active all the time is not something we generally expect from most people / companies. Especially of the latter, since after all, their primary reason of existence is to make money for the investors. > don't care which side wins This is a valid political position. Probably the one I'd take for most realpolitik of small incremental changes based on occurring issues. B…

> But also one hard to justify in divisive times with diametrically opposed sides becoming highly popular, thus those extremes having an increasing chance to actually & drastically affect our lives. I think it's especially easy to justify in our times, and it's arguably the sane position to take. Polarization and extremism we see in politics today is dangerous to society and democracy itself. Disengaging from various…

Divisive times will cause damage. Either as the collateral you mentioned when trying to stop it, otherwise when the winning side will change society. Ignoring problems generally increases the damage they cause, so not tackling it earlier might be the bigger fault.

Sure, we can hope this will all blow over, but I don't see reliable mechanisms encouraging this outcome while I really don't want to risk another 1930s germany to repeat itself. Thus I don't see any other way than fighting for (the important parts of) the status quo. Even if it won't be easy.

> Delegating in modern democracies is actually one of the reasons people disengage even when they do have a stake or opinion on the topic.

I was rather talking about using appeals to authority/expertise when forming & defending your opinion. "I'm a for Positions A, B & C cause Person X I respect on some podcast is for it" is fine as defense. You now only have to defend choosing X instead of A, B & C individually.

Yeah, the US two party system seems especially bad. But I'd also look for other factors, since divisiveness seems to generally be on the rise. At least here in germany, with a fresh neo-nazi party worryingly drastically, even with more options available, some of them fitting e.g. your position a lot better than just "left vs right" of the US. Non the less do people still feel ignored and left behind.

Though while looking for more direct counter-examples, the 2019 swiss election does look very similar to their 2007 one. I don't feel confident to form an opinion on that datum alone without knowing the broader context. At the same time, articles about "these places manage to keep their divisiveness in check" would probably not do very well in current media and thus I'd probably not notice them in the first place.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#89

Post by booleandilemma »

pgeorgi wrote: post #4

Their approach to moderation is unusual in that they don't even pretend to be a neutral platform and as such it's a powerful differentiator to businesses that are rooted in a "free speech" culture. Shadow-banning individual posts ("Visible to self") is relatively unusual and acts as a demotivator to publish controversial content because such content doesn't drive engagement, as is actively demoting entire classes of…

...as is actively demoting entire classes of content (like critical commentary on politics) from the start

The closest app TikTok is comparable to is Vine. What kind of critical commentary on politics are you expecting on these apps?

People watch these apps for the memes and hot girls.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#90

Post by jessaustin »

kds3 wrote: post #65
jessaustin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there breastfeeding on TikTok? More generally, is there anything on TikTok which is banned by Facebook?

> More generally, is there anything on TikTok which is banned by Facebook? That's wrong question. It usually doesn't matter what is banned, but what is "shadow-banned" really matters. You can't see what is shadow-banned on Facebook because they don't tell us how they do moderation on their news feed.

The difference is important on the level of individual users, but it's not important for this discussion. As TFA demonstrates, it's possible for diligent researchers to reveal unpublicized policies through their research. Users can assist researchers by pointing out what content they've had banned.

I haven't seen a reason to suspect that TikTok have been any more open about their moderation policies than Facebook or indeed any other social media platform have been.

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