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What I have learned from my suicidal patients

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Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#121

Post by Cougher »

canada_dry wrote: post #66
exolymph wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Said changes utterly failed to even make a dent in my depression, finally convincing me that nothing I did would ever make me feel good again (this was after multiple trials of antidepressants and talk therapy over the course of 10+ years; it's not like this was the first thing I tried). Oof, I didn't have quite as hard of a time as you, but that description resonates a lot. My experience(s) with depression have ta…

> taught me to never make empty promises to people Yes, I suspect this is probably a key trigger for suicidal people. You get a well meaning parent/sibling/relative that quickly gets in over their head trying to deal with a seriously depressed/mentally ill person and often they resort to this. A useful public service message would connect people in this position to contact mental health support services themselves to…

You guys are touching on something that's been grinding my gears for years: the large number of people who parrot vacuous feel-goodies from pop-psych purveyors like Wayne Dyer and Zig Ziglar as though they're user manuals to fix lives.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#122

Post by techdreamer »

hestipod wrote: post #99
RandomTisk wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you applied for disability? Really hope you find a way through.

Yes of course. Fought for it with lawyers for years. Denied despite evidence by a very biased judge. Appealed. Same judge denied again. The system is broken. I am out of credits to apply now. I have done everything you are supposed to and that people think works. It doesn't. It's just the same advice recycled and disbelief it didn't work...then on to blaming me for it...and me getting more upset and hopeless. Over an…

It's me again. (Sorry).

"I had a nightmare just last night about a victim I recall from early in my career...in such a horrible personal situation...who died in such a terrible way. She didn't have to. She was pushed to it and then allowed to because nobody she reached out to would help. I've seen dozens like that...and not a single one of them had to die." I wonder if your earlier career gave you PTSD and if your current circumstances are triggering it?

You had a bad judge twice - that guy is probably retired now or has moved on. I wonder if another might be reasonable - what you need is some kind of stable income so you can get space and stability. Are there no advocates who could help some kind of claim for someone in your situation - free advisors? Don't set some kind of end of year deadline on yourself - an advocate might be able to do a lot for you.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#123

Post by Fnoord »

petercooper wrote: post #41
Fnoord wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on Prozac. Mild side effects? When I started with it, my muscles hurt for weeks . I had to quit coffee (temporarily). I had to stop exercising (temporarily), and I was also very tired for weeks. Slowly all of that became less severe, though it never truly went away. Add to that, when I started my partner was about to bare our first-born. It was a hell of a time in my life, in many ways. A rollercoaster for sure.…

I used it so I can better cope with autism. Has it actually worked? Your post outlines all of the bad things you've experienced, but has it, on the balance of things, been worth it?

TL;DR: psychiatrist and apothecary need to evaluate that in my country. If it wasn't worth it, I'd have quit long ago. The alcohol side effect, for example, is annoying. However being tired for weeks, and muscle pain having more severe impact, that was and is highly annoying.

To answer your question though. According to myself: Yes. According to the people around me: Yes. The people around me are more positive about it than I am, but they generally don't suffer from the side effects. Basically, I have less sharp edges. I am, basically, less sensitive. The moment I'm most sensitive is during public transport. E.g. commute. I go back from work, I sit alone, and at end of people hopping on two people sit on the other side of me and start eating Burger King. Which smells. Well, yeah, I still can't act that away (or fake it till I make it). They notice I am annoyed by it. I give them looks.

Also, keep in mind, that there are other options available, but these also have side effects. From what I gathered, the other common treatment option contained an anti-psychotic with severe side effects.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#124

Post by aalleavitch »

hestipod wrote: post #84

I won't make it through the end of the year and it's all preventable. Nearly everything I see posted about suicidal people from non-suicidal people, and ESPECIALLY doctors get it wrong and avoids root causes in some self serving attempt to justify their failures or live with that existential fear. Most people I have known professionally when I was a provider, and personally since I became a victim, who were suicidal…

You are not alone. It is not you that is broken, it is the world around us that is broken. Things cannot continue the way they are. This system we live under, it corrupts everything. It inserts a fundamental tension into every human interaction we have, it drives a wedge into every relationship. It rips us apart and turns us against one another.

But it doesn't have to be this way. There are other ways to live, there are other worlds we could have. We don't have to incentivize predation. We don't have to reduce human life to dollar values. We can make a world that does not find its fundamental basis in self-interest, we can have a world where everyone is not fundamentally, irrevocably alone.

I recommend that you try to see if you can find a local chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America, or any local group looking to further the establishment of a Solidarity Economy. Don't throw your life away because you know this world is wrong; make it right. We are out there, and we need you.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#125

Post by aalleavitch »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #2

>The soldier who hiked out on to the moor, lay down in the heather and overdosed. Émile Durkheim, the great sociologist, theorised as to why suicide is so common among military personnel – not simply because of the devastating effects of war, or because of their easy access to weapons, but because of the depersonalising effect of army training: “Military esprit can only be strong if the individual is self-detached, a…

What does it say about our society when suicide becomes a "rational decision"? Are we really so helpless to change the conditions of the people around us who are suffering that we would throw up our hands and write it off as a loss?

At what point do we admit that the structure of our society amounts to animal abuse?

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#126

Post by aalleavitch »

cassowary37 wrote: post #89
brookside wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "treatment resistant depression" bothers me because, I think, a more accurate name would be "placebo resistant depression". Sorry to come off as frustrated; I'm like others in this thread with 10+ years of trying various therapies and antidepressants to end up feeling more, not less, hopeless. David Burns does a good job explaining why antidepressants and psychotherapy don't typically work in his most recent…

and HN refusal to pay attention to data when it relates to depression in 3..2..1... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29477251 for moderate to severe depression, the kind most posters are talking about, they're consistently better than placebo. It is true that placebo is often effective too. But most people I talk to would rather have that extra chance of getting better.

I wouldn't dismiss a meta-analysis out of hand, but at the same time...isn't there a strong pressure to publish an effect above placebo? They rated 73% of the studies as having a moderate risk of bias, and certainty of the evidence ranged from moderate to very low.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#127

Post by aalleavitch »

brookside wrote: post #80
jdietrich wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

STAR*D presents us with a "glass half full" problem. It's absolutely true that the majority of people will recover from depression with suitable treatment, but that leaves us with a minority who won't. I'm not sure how to communicate those facts effectively to a wide audience. It is absolutely imperative that people with depression seek treatment and keep trying even if the first or second or fifth treatment fails, o…

The term "treatment resistant depression" bothers me because, I think, a more accurate name would be "placebo resistant depression". Sorry to come off as frustrated; I'm like others in this thread with 10+ years of trying various therapies and antidepressants to end up feeling more, not less, hopeless. David Burns does a good job explaining why antidepressants and psychotherapy don't typically work in his most recent…

I don't think that the real cure for depression can be bought or sold.

Bruce Alexander is talking about addiction here, but I think everything he is describing absolutely applies for depression: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7axaXQmdBVQ

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#128

Post by hestipod »

bmer wrote: post #116
hestipod wrote: post #84

I won't make it through the end of the year and it's all preventable. Nearly everything I see posted about suicidal people from non-suicidal people, and ESPECIALLY doctors get it wrong and avoids root causes in some self serving attempt to justify their failures or live with that existential fear. Most people I have known professionally when I was a provider, and personally since I became a victim, who were suicidal…

Hello hestipod. I have been in your situation, and I have had certain privileges you do not have which helped me. So, I do not want to tell you: "just do XYZ and you'll be better". In fact, I agree with you that suicidal tendencies are not due to mental health issues; rather, they are due to deep societal injustices. Since I can't fix those, I can't truly help you. There is a reason why indigenous communities are par…

It's not freedom to "accept" being permanently and worsenginly sick and homeless or constantly living under that threat. It's not freedom to "accept" being in severe pain every day. It's not freedom to be in the "present" in those situations. Freedom is having positive choices, agency, hope. This stuff is nothing more than a psychological trick that I cannot sustain to say "I am powerless and this sucks but that's ok" and I will be some stone in the water or other bollocks. It's not ok and I will not keep living like that. I refuse. I don't WANT life to end but I cannot and will not live a life that's nearly 100% terrible and since the real and practical options to survive are denied there is no other path. I am not buddha and I reject that I HAVE to stay alive in this condition. I don't need something to do...something to study...as if I just lack purpose. Telling a drowning and tortured person to get a hobby or be in the moment is absurd. I need Maslow's bottom rungs secured. Everyone wants to fight for you not to die...but people will not help you live.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#129

Post by hestipod »

techdreamer wrote: post #122
hestipod wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes of course. Fought for it with lawyers for years. Denied despite evidence by a very biased judge. Appealed. Same judge denied again. The system is broken. I am out of credits to apply now. I have done everything you are supposed to and that people think works. It doesn't. It's just the same advice recycled and disbelief it didn't work...then on to blaming me for it...and me getting more upset and hopeless. Over an…

It's me again. (Sorry). "I had a nightmare just last night about a victim I recall from early in my career...in such a horrible personal situation...who died in such a terrible way. She didn't have to. She was pushed to it and then allowed to because nobody she reached out to would help. I've seen dozens like that...and not a single one of them had to die." I wonder if your earlier career gave you PTSD and if your cu…

You have been kind from the very beginning, but the sort of open ended questions and wishful thinking is rage inducing and makes me feel like a bad person and makes people turn on your harder when they upset you.

"Surely there is...why don't you just....there has to be...that sounds terrible what would help?" etc NEVER F^%#$ HELP! They are vague, obvious, useless advices or ideas. Things I have usually made directly clear I have done. The direct answers to needs are never heard. You answer questions and nothing...like it was all just to satisfy someone's curiosity. People give you absurdly obvious "advice" they have never enacted, and certainly not in such circumstances, and then tut when you don't accept it or it doesn't work. The truth is there have been many systems and people who could have helped...really helped...and they said "no". THEY decided that not me. I had my agency stolen.

Yes I have PTSD amongst many issues but that like the rest has been scoffed at and said to be "playing victim" or whatever other excuse. Yes the judges, "advocates, doctors etc have mostly been shit but people won't accept that because it's easier to say it's my fault and pretend that it was just an edge case and would never happen to them. I am NOT setting a deadline....THEY are!!!! I have no idea when the threats and drama will appear again or when they will be realized. I live in constant fear of it and have been pointlessly F&^%# screaming HELP ME for years now. The ONE, MAYBE actionable plan was derailed by MORE BAD THINGS. I need support....stability....it's not coming. It never comes. It's like some trickster god is playing with me seeing how far he can push me. And when you say "I CANNOT DO THIS ANYMORE" you get "hopes and prayers". I wish I had never made this F&%^# account or ever talked to anyone about this as it just brings more pain on already unsurvivable pain. F&%%& everything.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#130

Post by hestipod »

aalleavitch wrote: post #124
hestipod wrote: post #84

I won't make it through the end of the year and it's all preventable. Nearly everything I see posted about suicidal people from non-suicidal people, and ESPECIALLY doctors get it wrong and avoids root causes in some self serving attempt to justify their failures or live with that existential fear. Most people I have known professionally when I was a provider, and personally since I became a victim, who were suicidal…

You are not alone. It is not you that is broken, it is the world around us that is broken. Things cannot continue the way they are. This system we live under, it corrupts everything. It inserts a fundamental tension into every human interaction we have, it drives a wedge into every relationship. It rips us apart and turns us against one another. But it doesn't have to be this way. There are other ways to live, there…

A broken, broke, barely breathing husk who doesn't have the energy for basic tasks often cannot be an activist. I don't have the ability to do that in addition to surviving. While I agree with social democracy I am not someone who is in a position to fight politics. My stress coping ability is paper thin. My basic needs are in constant threat and shortage. It also will not change here in time for me. My only chance is getting help and moving. I am not throwing my life away...others did that. This country and its capitalistic nightmare ruined my life. I need away from it in the way I need away from my narcissistic, cruel family. I'd happily accept a reprieve...a way out...I am not wanting any of this. But I am not throwing away life by refusing to hurt more and more physically and mentally...that's not life.
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