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TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

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Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#41

Post by fzeroracer »

oefrha wrote: post #38
fzeroracer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right and what you've just admitted is that said forum is indeed political. The moderation and admin style is selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Users leave as a result of either typical churn or because they don't align well with the forum. Every single forum is going to grow a culture around it consisting of memes, ways of talking, interacting with others etc which are all very political in natur…

> selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Yeah, we select users who can stay on topic and who can contain anger and resolve conflicts like adults (or rather, like decent human beings; we did have teenage users). Not a tough ask, and neither outrageous nor outlandish for a topical forum.

Sure, but in that process you have to make decisions and weigh how to punish users. You have a set of rules and ideals users have to follow, which form the governance structure of your forum.

And the definition of politics is the art or science of governing. Forums operate much like miniature societies with their own laws and best conduct. Forums might be entities targetted towards very specific subjects but that doesn't free them from being political. It just means that the forum is aligned to your specific beliefs.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#42

Post by icebraining »

Lewton wrote: post #27
fzeroracer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's say you have a forum that completely bans all off-topic discussion. What happens when a prominent user experiences something negative? Like for example they die, or face harassment from people either inside or outside the community. Do you ban them for breaking the cardinal rule, or allow your forum to become political? It's not at all easy to create a forum that bans all off topic discussion. I've ran small…

https://www.reddit.com/r/CatsStandingUp/

/r/CatsStandingUp is a political affirmation against the banning of pet cats: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45347136

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#43

Post by Lewton »

icebraining wrote: post #42
Lewton wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CatsStandingUp/

/r/CatsStandingUp is a political affirmation against the banning of pet cats: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45347136

nope

You can disagree with having cats as pets and still post pictures of cats standing up

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#44

Post by icebraining »

fwxwi wrote: post #17
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a politics-free network, only one that only allows politics you agree with.

That is false. TikTok is a platform where people upload videos of themselves doing things like lip syncing, dancing, etc. That does not have to turn political at all. Unless you use the good ol' argument that "banning all political discussion is supporting the status quo which is also political"

Tell that to Elnaz Ghasemi, who has been arrested for posting videos on Instagram of her dancing.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#45

Post by pgeorgi »

CriticalCathed wrote: post #32
simion314 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think so, I am thinking for example of some on topic subreddits like r/DaystromInstitute , any post that would try to go offtopic and politicise stuff will be removed. As a non US citizen it is a breath of fresh air not to have all topics devolve into republicans vs democrats. IMO if you have rules that current politics is off topic and moderators that can enforce the rules, a community that respects the r…

I believe the idea underlying what he said is that everything is political. If I am wrong I apologize. It's an extension of the 1960s revolution of "the personal is political." To expound: everything is political in the sense that any action we take or decision we make or conclusion we reach rests on assumptions, norms, and values not everyone would affirm. That is, everything we do is rooted in a contestable point o…

> any action we take or decision we make or conclusion we reach rests on assumptions, norms, and values not everyone would affirm. That is, everything we do is rooted in a contestable point of origin; and since the realm of the contestable is the realm of politics, everything is political.

The theory that everything is political may be right on a global scale but it only works locally if you let it: Have house rules that ban contesting and the contestable realm is elsewhere (even if it might debate what's going on at your place) and with it the political.

Seems like TikTok is aiming for precisely that. Let's see how it goes.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#46

Post by Lewton »

_akei wrote: post #39
oefrha wrote: post #13

I fail to see why every platform has to become a fucking idealogical battleground. If I’m in the market for a social network myself (HN notwithstanding) I’d probably choose a politics-free one if possible.

Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I feel even Reddit is better when coming to political debates because on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns to your political ideology. On HN, if you are from China, India, Russia, African country, the best thing you can do is to avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative and any dissenting view will be downvoted until…

> Did you just call Hacker News apolitical?

I don’t think he did, at least what he wrote makes no judgement either way

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#47

Post by Reelin »

fzeroracer wrote: post #41
oefrha wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Yeah, we select users who can stay on topic and who can contain anger and resolve conflicts like adults (or rather, like decent human beings; we did have teenage users). Not a tough ask, and neither outrageous nor outlandish for a topical forum.

Sure, but in that process you have to make decisions and weigh how to punish users. You have a set of rules and ideals users have to follow, which form the governance structure of your forum. And the definition of politics is the art or science of governing. Forums operate much like miniature societies with their own laws and best conduct. Forums might be entities targetted towards very specific subjects but that doe…

> And the definition of politics is the art or science of governing.

> It just means that the forum is aligned to your specific beliefs.

Those two statements are using different definitions of the word politics. Carefully enforcing a reasonably bland and objective set of rules is not political by any definition of the term in use by the people you're arguing with here. It only becomes political if the rules themselves take a stance on current social issues.

Of course, using the other definition, the rules themselves are political because somebody could debate them and that would be a form of political action. So you could claim it's not politics free under that definition. But that's not what was actually being discussed here, so it isn't useful in this context.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#48

Post by madiathomas »

Lewton wrote: post #46
_akei wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I feel even Reddit is better when coming to political debates because on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns to your political ideology. On HN, if you are from China, India, Russia, African country, the best thing you can do is to avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative and any dissenting view will be downvoted until…

> Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I don’t think he did, at least what he wrote makes no judgement either way

This part made me to ask that question -> “HN notwithstanding”. it made me think he is excluding Hacker News from Ideologically/politically biased social networks.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#49

Post by oefrha »

_akei wrote: post #39
oefrha wrote: post #13

I fail to see why every platform has to become a fucking idealogical battleground. If I’m in the market for a social network myself (HN notwithstanding) I’d probably choose a politics-free one if possible.

Did you just call Hacker News apolitical? I feel even Reddit is better when coming to political debates because on Reddit you can find a subreddit that aligns to your political ideology. On HN, if you are from China, India, Russia, African country, the best thing you can do is to avoid articles about those geographical locations because comments will be mostly negative and any dissenting view will be downvoted until…

I excluded Hacker News from social networks I'm in the market for. HN is political as hell, and yes, whenever I make a niche (on HN) political comment I'm always prepared to burn karma.

Re: TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship

#50

Post by hackersean »

hamhand wrote: post #36
oefrha wrote: post #13

I fail to see why every platform has to become a fucking idealogical battleground. If I’m in the market for a social network myself (HN notwithstanding) I’d probably choose a politics-free one if possible.

It's ultimately the war on the definition of free speech.

https://youtu.be/ymaWq5yZIYM
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