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Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

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Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#131
post #119
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've written some about this here: https://www.jefftk.com/p/value-of-working-in-ads

Unpersonalized ads can still serve the same democratic funding model you're identifying as the main positive reason for online advertising's existence. You present a false choice between obnoxious (visibility intrusive) ads versus these odious information gathering schemes. Since the latter make more money and people hate obnoxious ads we must choose personalization. Thankfully we're now fully aligned with how Google…

As a developer in publishing, I would support that bill in a heartbeat. Tracking means you can target a niche market without paying for niche content. It’s terrible for publishers and consumers. It’s good for ad people.

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#132
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start providing content that users are willing to pay for?

The problem is that subscription models are flawed, at least for things like Ars Technica. In most cases, people don't want to commit a portion of their monthly budget to a specific website for the rest of their life. I don't know how often I read Ars Technica, but it's probably a couple of articles a month. That is worth maybe $0.10 to me, so they can never collect that profitably. They use ads because then I "pay"…

There is also Scroll, which disables ads on participating sites. They don't stop tracking, though, as far as I know. In fact, Scroll itself tracks everything you read while logged in since they use it to reimburse the content providers proportionally out of your subscription revenue.

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#133
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do - Instart Logic is one of the reverse proxies dedicated to serving ads first-party. For tracking and invasive device tracking (WebGL, plugin enumeration, Canvas, audiocontext, WebRTC, WebSocket-based portscanning of your LAN CIDR acquired from WebRTC, ...) there's Shape and Distil that both do inline reverse proxying.

Is this form of aggressive identification without consent not going against the GDPR?

When I browse European sites I'm always having to click through permissions - I imagine most folks are on autopilot by now in terms of saying "yes" especially in Europe - how can you even browse the web if you don't click yes one everything in Europe?

What's the data on folks actually saying no to these popups / clickthrough alerts?

I used to skim the relatively few permission / yes agreements (ie, this will auto sign you up for XX), but now they are showing up so many places it's not practical anymore I don't think?

Even https://europa.eu/ (the official EU website) has a cookie banner at the top of the very first page you hit. And instead of the website asking me - I normally just block cookies if I don't want to share them.

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this form of aggressive identification without consent not going against the GDPR?

When I browse European sites I'm always having to click through permissions - I imagine most folks are on autopilot by now in terms of saying "yes" especially in Europe - how can you even browse the web if you don't click yes one everything in Europe? What's the data on folks actually saying no to these popups / clickthrough alerts? I used to skim the relatively few permission / yes agreements (ie, this will auto sig…

I might be wrong, but GDPR was supposed to force businesses to provide a DNT option unless completely vital to the business. If that is true, most sites are liable for forcing you to click "yes".

Update: I went and found this[1]:

> this provision means that companies will process only the data absolutely necessary for the completion of its business and limit access to personal data to only those employees needing the information to complete the process consented to by the data subject

[1] https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-eu-general-data-pro...

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#135
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that you have the caveat and all, but seriously? The tech industry has widespread cooperation with a regime in China that is brutalizing Hong Kong and committing ethnic cleansing of the Uigurs--and you want to know if he can sleep at night because he codes software to show ads for socks to people that don't want to see ads (but somehow can't bring themselves to live without content that's ad supported)?

> (but somehow can't bring themselves to live without content that's ad supported)? Every day that becomes less and less of an option and presenting it as an option is disingenuous. Are you seriously suggesting that people live without search engines? I think it's valid to question the role of cars in our society even if the critic took a car to the meeting, for example.

False dichotomy. Other options might be paid search. Personal search engines. Peer to peer search. Or new business models. Yes, it's possible to imagine a world without Google et al screwing everyone out of their privacy.

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#136
post #42

The easiest way for site-owners to delegate control has been to include third-party javascript. With new browser restrictions, we're starting to see companies switching to loading JS via CNAMEd subdomains, because that's nearly as easy. The next step is probably reverse proxies, though, where the third-party JS comes from the same server that gives you the rest of the site's JS. (Disclosure: I work in ads; speaking o…

As the host of a few web properties, I've always been very discriminating when it comes to third party content (including trackers). In fact my broad rule of thumb is to avoid it. You don't need it to have a successful business model.

I'm disappointed at webmasters who push garbage from their sites.

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#137

The way to counter this is to know the IP a given CNAME resolves to, and to block “rogue” (read: tracking) IPs. As an open-source DNS implementer, I know this has already been done, since my DNS server (MaraDNS’s Deadwood recursive resolver) has the ability to refuse to resolve DNS names with bad IPs via ip_blacklist. The reason I implemented this is to block NXDOMAIN redirects (when using an ISP’s DNS server and mis…

> block “rogue” (read: tracking) IPs.

With IPv6 that's as impractical as blocking "rogue" FQDNs.

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#138
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've written some about this here: https://www.jefftk.com/p/value-of-working-in-ads

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

If you're going to trot out Upton Sinclair's beaten-to-death horse, you might as well attribute it to him. But then there are also less pretentious ways of pointing out mundane conflicts of interest.

From what I've seen on HN, this quote is one of the top offenders when it comes to commenters just dropping it in without further engagement. On well-moderated subreddits like /r/askhistorians, commenters are required to critically engage with their citations instead of just linking them. Likewise I feel we should put a moratorium on responding exclusively with (well worn) quotations on HN.

To be specific: the way you've responded here is trite, dismissive of someone else's perspective by way of judging them for their occupation, and generally lacking in nuance. It's middle brow posturing of insight without the substantive analysis to back it up.

What have we learned as a result of this solemn reminder that some people get paid to do things we disagree with? People are explicitly calling out their affiliations with adtech in this thread; should we abandon discussion with them because you think their paycheck precludes them from being able to be persuaded?

Here's a riposte for you: "The mark of an educated mind is the ability to entertain an idea without accepting it."

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#139
post #12

Use a Pihole + your adblocker of choice - defense in depth. It's easy to set up, brainless to keep updated, and helps to protect all devices on your network, not just the things that can run uBlock. I've got mine running in a Docker container, which upstreams to a stubby container, which gets DNS-over-TLS, so I get adblocking and DNS query encryption out to Cloudflare for the whole network, and it's really not all th…

DNS-based blacklisting is not effective against an effectively infinite, rapidly-iterated, DNS namespace on domains that you otherwise trust.

My experience is with DNSMasq, but should apply to PiHole.

I'd noticed that several ads networks were utilising massive numbers of hosts at a specific domain (limited to advertising). If you're using a simple /etc/hosts blocklist, you'd have to individually block these. The alternative DNSMasq affords is to block entire domains or subdomains. This is remarkably effective.

But ...

... if ads and content are being served from the same domain, you'd have to switch to a DEFAULT DENY plus EXPLICIT ALLOW rule. So you'd have to blacklist all of "example.com" except for the valid hosts, say, "webserver.example.com", "css.example.com" and "nonhostile-js.example.com", to enable assets from those specific hosts.

Another alternative, which would probably work reasonably well against CNAME attacks, is to simply deny all traffic at the IP level to the CNAMEs' targets.

Since the goal of the advertiser is to make a small number of hosts or hostnames appear as a large number of their client domains, you still have an effective lever to apply in blocking access. But you'll need to use IP-level blocking (firewall), rather than the until-now useful and largely effective DNS-based blocklists that have become popular.

As a technical countermeasure.

Regulating the everloving hell out of these practices, and/or suing both tracking firms and their clients, is another possible approach. And I think it's going to take both technical and collective social and legal methods to address this.

Re: Cname cloaking, a disguise of third-party trackers

#140
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think ad companies will really trust reverse-proxied ad traffic? Seems like a tremendous opportunity for fraud. Right now with user agents hitting ad servers directly, there's much less opportunity for content publishers to fake impressions and clicks.

Instead of websites deploying reverse-proxies to tunnel ads through, Google has entire websites tunnel through their edge via AMP. Wouldn't surprise me if BigTech gets together and introduces standards that open up more avenues for CDNs to take away even more control and monetize the traffic they serve, on their terms. Google has pretty much checkmate d content-blockers in that they control the servers, the OS, and t…

I guess we get to the point where the content blockers load the scripts, and run heuristics on them before loading them, and perhaps running an adaptive real-time blacklist?
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