What I have learned from my suicidal patients • Hacker News Board

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#31

Post by sysbin » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

algaeontoast wrote: post #25

sysbin wrote: post #14

I theorize society would be a better place if people could choose to end their life when they please by assistance in dying (commonly given to terminally ill). Although the idea is controversial I'm firmly attached to it from what I've witnessed in my life. Some people just have a terrible fate and nothing that comes in their life changes it because not everyone gets a good job, significant other, place to call home,…

I think this is a uniquely western / American dilemma. I recently had an older relative decide to not proceed with treatment for stage four pancreatic cancer and my family’s response was almost of shame and aghast. It’s still odd to me that my parents were almost offended when I signed forms that indicates I did not want to be on life support if I’m brain dead or forcibly resuscitated if I arrived at a hospital “dead…

I assume correlation with religious ideology. The everyone must live & appreciate the unique gift given to them belief. Never considering the persons wanting to end their life don't consider life a gift but the opposite. Also fear of death is another factor in the equation. In any case I think there will be a change in 60 years.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#32

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #18

snagglegaggle wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are going in the right direction. Society needs to recognize that suicide must be some evolutionarily advantageous adaptation. Many people when pressed will say they think an individual has value, but that individual often sees no actions come from that sentiment. And if someone thinks they provide no value and are not wanted, it seems logical to unburden everyone else. It would be similar to how cats go…

> Society needs to recognize that suicide must be some evolutionarily advantageous adaptation. Bollocks. There is very close to zero evolutionary pressure against (and, of course, even less than that for) having a small percentage of individual of a species decide to off themselves. Especially when it's older males (the most likely age group to commit suicide).

Surely if a tribe can reduce the feeding burden it improves its fitness, to the benefit of all members.

If a tribe can do that, and increase calorie intake simultaneously then there's a double benefit.

Older males [who can't hunt or defend and after trained in anything else] who would end their own lives would improve the survival chances of their own offspring, it seems?

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#33

Post by sysbin » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

ThrowawayP wrote: post #28

sysbin wrote: post #14

I theorize society would be a better place if people could choose to end their life when they please by assistance in dying (commonly given to terminally ill). Although the idea is controversial I'm firmly attached to it from what I've witnessed in my life. Some people just have a terrible fate and nothing that comes in their life changes it because not everyone gets a good job, significant other, place to call home,…

> Some people just have a terrible fate and nothing that comes in their life changes it because not everyone gets a good job, significant other, place to call home, and the healthy body. There's actually a term for this, SLS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit_Life_Syndrome Apparently it was coined as a "ha ha, only serious" joke but came into more general usage in the UK: https://authenticmedicine.com/did-i-discover…

Fate is a real thing and so I can see how SLS started as a joke. I didn't know of the term SLS (thanks for sharing).

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#34

Post by BLKNSLVR » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:31 PM UTC

sysbin wrote: post #14

I theorize society would be a better place if people could choose to end their life when they please by assistance in dying (commonly given to terminally ill). Although the idea is controversial I'm firmly attached to it from what I've witnessed in my life. Some people just have a terrible fate and nothing that comes in their life changes it because not everyone gets a good job, significant other, place to call home,…

Euthanasia is a distinctly separate topic to suicide (in my mind), but since you brought it up, here is a magnificent oration by Andrew Denton on the topic:

https://youtu.be/FMP8eDEik14

It's 50 minutes, and I haven't seen all of it, but it's sad and moving and somehow perfectly combines humanity and logic.

(Edited to specify my own bias)

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#35

Post by sysbin » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #34

sysbin wrote: post #14

I theorize society would be a better place if people could choose to end their life when they please by assistance in dying (commonly given to terminally ill). Although the idea is controversial I'm firmly attached to it from what I've witnessed in my life. Some people just have a terrible fate and nothing that comes in their life changes it because not everyone gets a good job, significant other, place to call home,…

Euthanasia is a distinctly separate topic to suicide (in my mind), but since you brought it up, here is a magnificent oration by Andrew Denton on the topic: https://youtu.be/FMP8eDEik14 It's 50 minutes, and I haven't seen all of it, but it's sad and moving and somehow perfectly combines humanity and logic. (Edited to specify my own bias)

How is suicide not an attempt at self inflicted euthanasia? I'll watch your video (thanks).

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#36

Post by benibela » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #18

snagglegaggle wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are going in the right direction. Society needs to recognize that suicide must be some evolutionarily advantageous adaptation. Many people when pressed will say they think an individual has value, but that individual often sees no actions come from that sentiment. And if someone thinks they provide no value and are not wanted, it seems logical to unburden everyone else. It would be similar to how cats go…

> Society needs to recognize that suicide must be some evolutionarily advantageous adaptation. Bollocks. There is very close to zero evolutionary pressure against (and, of course, even less than that for) having a small percentage of individual of a species decide to off themselves. Especially when it's older males (the most likely age group to commit suicide).

It might be a epidemic prevention, similar to apoptosis.

Better the sick person dies voluntarily than infecting everyone else with a deadly disease

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#37

Post by pasabagi » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

I just wanted to say, if anyone is having a dark time, make an appointment with a doctor and ask them about Prozac. Unlike most antidepressants, the side effects don’t seem very noticeable. I think there’s a sort of stigma against talking about mental health (except in the third person), but it’s one of those things that should probably change. Taking Prozac doesn’t mean you’re somehow broken. It’s like a crutch: why…

All anti-depressants have severe or annoying side effects for some people. Most anti-depressants have almost no side effects for most people. The trick is to change prescriptions until you find one you like.

(I'm on my third prescription, and have no complaints.)

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#38

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

> To feel depressed about the state of your life is to demonstrate capacity to imagine something different, and that spark of imagination can prove a motive to change.

This was arguably true for me, but not in a good way. I'm pretty sure that I started having intrusive suicidal thoughts because my depression had motivated me to try to change. Said changes utterly failed to even make a dent in my depression, finally convincing me that nothing I did would ever make me feel good again (this was after multiple trials of antidepressants and talk therapy over the course of 10+ years; it's not like this was the first thing I tried).

All the generic "there is hope" and "antidepressants really work" and "go to therapy" talk that tends to surround mental illness discussion really bugs me because virtually nobody acknowledges the damage that's done when these things fail (and they fail frequently). It doesn't just damage trust in mental health professionals, it hurts the credibility of recovery as a concept.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#39

Post by bunkydoo » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

I think there is the sad suicide, then there is the cobain blaze of glory type suicide. Some folks have had their keep of the ups and downs and just want to go. Let them.

Re: What I have learned from my suicidal patients

#40

Post by boomboomsubban » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #19

sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

I just wanted to say, if anyone is having a dark time, make an appointment with a doctor and ask them about Prozac. Unlike most antidepressants, the side effects don’t seem very noticeable. I think there’s a sort of stigma against talking about mental health (except in the third person), but it’s one of those things that should probably change. Taking Prozac doesn’t mean you’re somehow broken. It’s like a crutch: why…

I'm on Prozac. Mild side effects? When I started with it, my muscles hurt for weeks . I had to quit coffee (temporarily). I had to stop exercising (temporarily), and I was also very tired for weeks. Slowly all of that became less severe, though it never truly went away. Add to that, when I started my partner was about to bare our first-born. It was a hell of a time in my life, in many ways. A rollercoaster for sure.…

>Nearly all medicine have side effects. People should be informed about them (it is included with the medicine, at least here).

Most medicine has minimal side effects for most people. "Very common" side effects are ones that effect 10% of people taking the medication.

People should be aware that side effects are possible, but they are unlikely. Going in with the attitude that side effects are inevitable makes one more susceptible to the placebo effect causing them.