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The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

paulgraham.com

51–60 of 500 posts

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a much more obvious difference between now and 100 years ago: 100 years ago the education and financial support for scientific research was largely a closed shop for European-descended upper middle class men. There are certainly many geniuses obsessively researching into areas that stimulate their intellectual interest today that wouldn't have had the opportunity to do so back then. I'm not sure being a scien…

> 100 years ago the education and financial support for scientific invention was largely a closed shop for European-descended upper middle class men. i.e. exactly the people who were, by far, most likely to be living a comfortable, stress-free life back then. We should not underestimate the sheer amount of material progress and economic growth that has occurred since then. A lot more people can have the luxury of get…

800 karma in 73 days. I wonder what the highest karma gain in two months was, in HN’s history. (From comments only, and with the top comment removed from consideration to avoid one-offs.)

I guess I’m a bus ticket collector of HN facts.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#52
post #26
post #3

What's the topic that just doesn't leave you alone? For me it's an interest in animal consciousness and communication, even though I am a physicist by training.

Fellow physicist-by-training. Got interested in "machine learning" and "artificial intelligence" a few years ago. As I delve into the roots of the field, I increasingly feel that many interesting ideas seem to have been discarded without justification other than the field switching en masse to a different fad at some instant. Of late, I'm particularly fascinated by ideas in Cybernetics, but I don't see anyone else be…

Maybe Jürgen Schmidhuber's opinion on consciousness might be of interest?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/2xcyrl/i_a...

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#53
post #39
post #36

Just to point out, we not only find stuff where our obsession lies, we can sometimes create complexity and interesting stuff where it lies, out of the thin air. I'm obsessed about audio/music tech. Some part of this area is immensely complex due to people's obsession with good sound, or new interesting sounds, or new ways of altering it. They don't discover these things, they create it. Time stretch or pitch shift al…

> I can't imagine how you can create useful complexity by collecting bus tickets, Some people have an obsession for the actual tickets, while others have an obsession with the ticketing pricing system. These people can find useful oddities with the system. In some parts of the UK it's worthwhile buying a year long railcard for two stations that you will never travel to or from, because that gives you a gold card, and…

True, but my point was that it seems like usefulness can be created out of the think air, i.e. you don't discover it (or miss it) but instead you direct your obsession towards usefulness by adding complexity. I think maths is a great example of this, though some big part of it hasn't proved its usefulness yet.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#54
Thank you for this article.

This seems to me that it applies so much to other aspects of life as well, not only for being "a genius". Perhaps this applies more to a particular subset of people who will think on this line.

For example, take the obsession and dial it down a little bit so it becomes a passion instead. Or even further so it becomes ordinary motivation. It becomes almost a linear scale that should match motivation with the effort you may need to achieve anything towards a particular direction. One may say, "that's common sense", but let's consider it anyway. Combine this with the fact that with any field, the further you go outwards, the more effort you will need to take another step. This is similar to the energy you will need to accelerate further, once you reach a particular speed. The faster you go, the more energy you need to go even faster.

In order to start anything that may have enough of a struggle, we need to have enough of a motivation to have started it. Otherwise, when the times get tough and we face a brick wall, we can remind ourselves of that initial motivation to be brave enough to even consider running through that wall head-first even if it may hurt us in the short term. Ideally we should have tools or other people to help us in this task but when it comes to many unexplored areas of science, or even starting our own company, these tools or other people are not so available to us, therefore it is likely we will need that determination to allow us to do that sacrifice. Luckily, these tools/people problems are being resolved more and more every day. But, the further we go, the more we will need, so the thought still applies with the same effect, forever.

There should also be an expanding curiosity aspect to it, too. You have touched on this with being interested in different things. However, we need to actively keep in mind how these different things may be related to each other, perhaps literally, perhaps at a more abstract level. This way, we can continue our exploration of both by using these overlaps as foundations for new land between those landmasses. So that we will not need a complete context switch to consider the different subjects, but we keep building more bridges between them. I like to consider the metaphors of the steam engine to help describe the mind. I am unsure if Freud came up with these connections but they helped expand our minds about what it thinks about itself anyway.

So, does it mean, we are excused to say "follow your dreams"? I believe so. There may be a lot of other people who will say "that is foolish, you will struggle to live". If you look at the bigger picture and say, let's take that seriously: if 100 people try to follow their dreams and only 1 make it while the rest of the 99 suffer. The more you encourage, the more you make that 100 a 1000, and the 1 a 10. The 99 becomes 990. Now, the question becomes, is it worth it? You can guess my answer to this but I will leave it unanswered with the hopes to further discussion.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#55
> When they get interested in something, however random, I encourage them to go preposterously, bus ticket collectorly, deep. I don't do this because of the bus ticket theory. I do it because I want them to feel the joy of learning, and they're never going to feel that about something I'm making them learn. It has to be something they're interested in. I'm just following the path of least resistance; depth is a byproduct. But if in trying to show them the joy of learning I also end up training them to go deep, so much the better.

I feel like this part captures the essence of it... to be _really_ good at something, you have to have deep interest which you can't force - so just forget about being good, it's not worth worrying about, instead discover what you can have fun with and get crazy about. This feels like such a natural thing to encourage in kids :)

Also the side effects of getting deeply interested in random things should not be underestimated, in my experience the connections between seemingly disconnected things are unexpectedly common.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#57
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way is to enter a competition with others. Using the example from the essay, a big part of obsession with bus tickets is probably explained by being able to show off rare bus tickets to fellow collectors. Incidentally, many cool things seem to spring out of some kind of a "scene" (which is defined by this friendly competition among its members).

> Using the example from the essay, a big part of obsession with bus tickets is probably explained by being able to show off rare bus tickets to fellow collectors. Eh, I had a large collection. I still have a collection of a few hundred tickets (not worth much, a few hundred pounds). I started the collection in about 1997. I stopped in about 2003. I've never shown other collectors my tickets, and I've only put about…

I love it that on HN my point can be disproved by an actual bus ticket collector! Still I think my larger point stands - Girardian mimetic desire (http://www.imitatio.org/brief-intro) is a powerful force that certainly can get you interested in something.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#58
post #16

I think this is correct. The bad news is we are creating systems which minimise the number of geniuses entering each field. In the past, science was an eccentric hobby, not particularly valued and certainly not a viable career option. Today it's all of these things - like becoming a doctor. Telling your mother you want to be a scientist is far better than saying you want to be a musician. A hundred years ago that wou…

The 'problem' with modern science is that a large finite amount of stuff has been discovered, and new discoveries are most often built on that stuff. I splash around in the backwaters of machine learning, however I have to pick my targets carefully and maintain a very tight focus - the defined knowledge base has already grown to more than anyone can ingest in detail. Given the amount of knowledge that has to be absor…

> a large finite amount of stuff has been discovered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_unsolved_problems

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#59
post #16

I think this is correct. The bad news is we are creating systems which minimise the number of geniuses entering each field. In the past, science was an eccentric hobby, not particularly valued and certainly not a viable career option. Today it's all of these things - like becoming a doctor. Telling your mother you want to be a scientist is far better than saying you want to be a musician. A hundred years ago that wou…

The 'problem' with modern science is that a large finite amount of stuff has been discovered, and new discoveries are most often built on that stuff. I splash around in the backwaters of machine learning, however I have to pick my targets carefully and maintain a very tight focus - the defined knowledge base has already grown to more than anyone can ingest in detail. Given the amount of knowledge that has to be absor…

The problem with modern science is that there is no room for the unusual.

Faraday had no formal training, but his natural intuition, interest, and tenacity made him standout.

Newton was a brilliant, paranoid asshole.

Instead funding goes to credentialed career scientists whose greatest ability is self-promotion, fund raising, and stringing-along the public.

As an example: The next big particle accelerator sucks up billions; while alternative approaches to QM never get any attention because it’s a guaranteed way to kill a career and become a pariah.

So nobody is available to even try to create the theoretical framework at the investment of a few million.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#60
post #41

But should the bus ticket collector start a company around bus tickets or should it remain a hobby?

Probably not... until some unexpected eureka moment comes.

What if bus tickets of certain style correlate to lower accident rates or more reliable schedules and no one else has noticed before?

What if a certain property of bus tickets is a predictor for some other societal result or economic trend in a way few would expect?

What if they are really tasty and nutritious but no one ever tried eating them?

Each one of these is farfetched enough that is no one is getting involved in collecting just to chase these possibilities. But only a collector, motivated by curiosity, is ever likely to catch them.

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