Live data from Hacker News

The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

paulgraham.com

31–40 of 500 posts

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#31

Can you make yourself intentionally interested in a topic?

To quote Feynman: “Nobody ever figures out what life is all about, and it doesn't matter. Explore the world. Nearly everything is really interesting if you go into it deeply enough.” It is relatively easy to get interested in various topics.

But being obsessively interested in one/few of them is a completely different matter -- a lot of other "normal" aspects of life tend to suffer as a side-effect. Our society does not do a good job of nurturing and encouraging such lopsided profiles, and trying to keep that spark alive while leading a "normal" life extracts an incredibly heavy cost. Understandably, most "normal" people (instinctively) find that to be a cost not worth paying. Embedded in contemporary society, few such people manage to pursue their interest to their satisfaction, and fewer do well enough to be considered "successful" by society (a vanishing fraction become outstandingly successful, and are then called "geniuses").

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#32
Side note about Newton and occult.

Newton was not just a physicist who dabbled with occult. He turned occult into physics.

Before Newton scientists and natural philosophers like Descartes believed that movements were caused by physical contact.

Newton started traditionally and proposed the existence of ether that transmits forces. When he became interested in alchemy, he replaced ether with occult forces that repel and attract each other. Newton received criticism for his theory that gravity was worked through "action at a distance", because that is occult quality. His theory was not seen as physical theory at first, because 'physical theories' at the time were physical in the intuitive common sense meaning. Action at a distance, across a vacuum, was occultism.

Keynes called Newton the last magician. He was able to make similar leap as Einstein did.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#34

I think males are more likely than females to become obsessed with narrow domains. (I used to be obsessed with chess, especially chess openings.) This may be a partial explanation of why there have been more male geniuses. Graham must be careful about what he writes, but he does say this: "One interesting thing about the bus ticket theory is that it may help explain why different types of people excel at different ki…

> I think males are more likely than females to become obsessed with narrow domains. I don't think this is the case. Males just have low visibility into typical female 'obsessions' (or just don't care all that much about them), but the reverse is also generally true. Females tend to obsess about things that have a 'social' side, like their shoes collection - whereas males are more into physical, material things that…

This is exactly right. I've come across this theory of obsession on my own and I've been helping my wife find what she's obsessed with. She watches things on YouTube like makeup tutorials that are things I would have never thought she was obsessed with.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#35
post #16

I think this is correct. The bad news is we are creating systems which minimise the number of geniuses entering each field. In the past, science was an eccentric hobby, not particularly valued and certainly not a viable career option. Today it's all of these things - like becoming a doctor. Telling your mother you want to be a scientist is far better than saying you want to be a musician. A hundred years ago that wou…

The 'problem' with modern science is that a large finite amount of stuff has been discovered, and new discoveries are most often built on that stuff. I splash around in the backwaters of machine learning, however I have to pick my targets carefully and maintain a very tight focus - the defined knowledge base has already grown to more than anyone can ingest in detail. Given the amount of knowledge that has to be absor…

The number of unanswered questions grows even faster as more questions are answered.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#36
Just to point out, we not only find stuff where our obsession lies, we can sometimes create complexity and interesting stuff where it lies, out of the thin air.

I'm obsessed about audio/music tech. Some part of this area is immensely complex due to people's obsession with good sound, or new interesting sounds, or new ways of altering it. They don't discover these things, they create it. Time stretch or pitch shift algorithms, for example, were created (I suppose) by obsessed people who like to create complexity and by extension, useful stuff.

So no, Darwin's invention model is not the only possible one.

I can't imagine how you can create useful complexity by collecting bus tickets, but who knows, maybe some key to inventing more efficient public transport lies there. Or at least more efficient bus ticket printing. Can be anything!

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#37

Can you make yourself intentionally interested in a topic?

One way is to enter a competition with others. Using the example from the essay, a big part of obsession with bus tickets is probably explained by being able to show off rare bus tickets to fellow collectors. Incidentally, many cool things seem to spring out of some kind of a "scene" (which is defined by this friendly competition among its members).

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#38
post #16

I think this is correct. The bad news is we are creating systems which minimise the number of geniuses entering each field. In the past, science was an eccentric hobby, not particularly valued and certainly not a viable career option. Today it's all of these things - like becoming a doctor. Telling your mother you want to be a scientist is far better than saying you want to be a musician. A hundred years ago that wou…

There's a much more obvious difference between now and 100 years ago: 100 years ago the education and financial support for scientific research was largely a closed shop for European-descended upper middle class men. There are certainly many geniuses obsessively researching into areas that stimulate their intellectual interest today that wouldn't have had the opportunity to do so back then.

I'm not sure being a scientist was that unfashionable 100 years ago anyway: research labs were a thing, academic work was arguably more prestigious than it is today, fortunes were being made from inventions especially in fields where there were low hanging fruit, competitions and societies and exhibitions to celebrate scientific achievement had come into existence and the idea of inventiveness was even tied up in popular contemporaneous notions of national and racial superiority. There might be more subfields and more research to build on nowadays, but the stereotype of scientists being underpaid eccentrics certainly hasn't gone away and nor has the fact a mathematics prodigy can make a lot more money working in financial services than academic research.

I'm also unconvinced scientific progress has slowed because today's geniuses are working on interpreting our genetic code, modelling solutions to climate change and solving scaling problems in computation rather than drawing taxonomy diagrams, inventing new types of consumer electronics and breaking the land speed record.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#39
post #36

Just to point out, we not only find stuff where our obsession lies, we can sometimes create complexity and interesting stuff where it lies, out of the thin air. I'm obsessed about audio/music tech. Some part of this area is immensely complex due to people's obsession with good sound, or new interesting sounds, or new ways of altering it. They don't discover these things, they create it. Time stretch or pitch shift al…

> I can't imagine how you can create useful complexity by collecting bus tickets,

Some people have an obsession for the actual tickets, while others have an obsession with the ticketing pricing system. These people can find useful oddities with the system. In some parts of the UK it's worthwhile buying a year long railcard for two stations that you will never travel to or from, because that gives you a gold card, and the gold card gives you 1/3 off other tickets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbrFze0XH5M

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying if you want to test systems you want a legitimate way for these people to look at it, because otherwise they may find ways that are problematic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_McCollum

But also, the essay does say that some obsessions are useful and others don't appear to have wider uses than being interesting for that individual person.

Re: The Bus Ticket Theory of Genius

#40
post #16

I think this is correct. The bad news is we are creating systems which minimise the number of geniuses entering each field. In the past, science was an eccentric hobby, not particularly valued and certainly not a viable career option. Today it's all of these things - like becoming a doctor. Telling your mother you want to be a scientist is far better than saying you want to be a musician. A hundred years ago that wou…

There's a much more obvious difference between now and 100 years ago: 100 years ago the education and financial support for scientific research was largely a closed shop for European-descended upper middle class men. There are certainly many geniuses obsessively researching into areas that stimulate their intellectual interest today that wouldn't have had the opportunity to do so back then. I'm not sure being a scien…

> 100 years ago the education and financial support for scientific invention was largely a closed shop for European-descended upper middle class men.

i.e. exactly the people who were, by far, most likely to be living a comfortable, stress-free life back then. We should not underestimate the sheer amount of material progress and economic growth that has occurred since then. A lot more people can have the luxury of getting playfully obsessed about something than could back then.

Post reply on HN