Speculation on the next MacBook Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#51

Post by statictype » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 11:46 AM UTC

ugh wrote: post #26

statictype wrote: post #21

Mac OS X doesn't support TRIM does it? I know a lot of people are gushing over the SSD drives but aren't they going to be bummed out in 12 months when it starts degrading?

“We started off this article making it intentionally limited in scope as we weren't expecting, in a OS that doesn't support TRIM, to find anything all that interesting. What we found was the exact opposite: an OS that doesn't appear to be affected by SSD performance degradation, at least if you stick to the SSD Apple provides - but if you do stick with that SSD, you get, by modern PC standards, decidedly substandard…

Interesting. So TRIM isn't needed because newer Flash disks handle overwrites properly?

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#52

Post by pmjordan » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:05 PM UTC

trezor wrote: post #49

The only thing which put me off getting a MacBook Pro last time I was shopping for laptops was the lack of built in 3G. So instead I got a Dell Studio XPS laptop, with a Core i5 CPU, 256GB SSD, builtin 3G, full-HD display. For $1000 less than a "similarly" speced MBP (Core2, 128GB SSD, sub HD-res unless you want a 17" beast) no less. I really don't regret my decision, but if Apple would just consider adding a 3G modu…

While I agree that builtin 3G would be nice, I ended up buying a portable 3G wifi router. (the TrekStor one, which is a rebranded Huawei E5) This works well for me, though I don't rely on it daily. If I did, the ~4-5 hour battery life might be an issue, vs my MacBook Air's 7-8. (it charges via USB)

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#53

Post by pmjordan » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:09 PM UTC

statictype wrote: post #50

pclark wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point was that you think Apple hasn't carefully considered if all their SSDs are going to degrade over the next year or two?

Given the following data points: a) TRIM is generally needed to be supported by the OS in order to make SSDs work well over time (and is supported by Windows and Linux kernels, among others) b) Mac OS X up to Snow Leopard doesn't support TRIM I would tend to believe SSDs used by Mac OS X will degrade in performance over time. Clearly its possible that either (a) or (b) are wrong. In which case, it would be cool to he…

Re b): Mac OS X 10.6 (and I think even later revisions of 10.5) support TRIM at the block device driver level [1]. As far as I know, it's the HFS+ file system code that doesn't support it, and neither do the SSDs in the current MacBook Air. I don't know about the ones in the iMac and MacBook Pro, but I vaguely remember that they also don't support it.

[1] via the discard() method on IOStorage objects: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin...

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#54

Post by wippler » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:09 PM UTC

Have to agree with CPU's comment, they are the most irrelevant upgrade to laptops these days and yet you find people complaining that they wont buy new MBP's if they don't upgrade to Sandy Bridge.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#55

Post by mfringel » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:27 PM UTC

m104 wrote: post #28

statictype wrote: post #21

Mac OS X doesn't support TRIM does it? I know a lot of people are gushing over the SSD drives but aren't they going to be bummed out in 12 months when it starts degrading?

You really think that Apple would let their SSD-buying customers twist in the wind? The people paying a premium, or buying an MacBook Air? You're saying that Apple hasn't had or won't have a way to make OS X love the SSD? Apple, the company that will probably be the first major computer manufacturer to eliminate the spinning disks, the company that is doing whatever it can to snatch up flash memory production capacit…

Apple wouldn't let customers "twist in the wind", it would sell them a solution.

An SSD is a wear item, and consequently a revenue stream. Imagine a replacement plan similar to the current battery replacement policy. Right now, you pay a fixed price, and they'll crack the case and swap out the battery.

Doing it for an SSD after some fixed amount of time would follow quite nicely, and give them the upsell opportunity. "Hey, while we're replacing the SSD, if you pay an extra $99, we'll swap in a bigger drive."

Apple is in the consumer electronics business, and part of their genius is in figuring out how to raise the annualized spend of their customers. The SSD is just another way to do that.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#56

Post by kayoone » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:29 PM UTC

They should really hurry up with USB 3.0! That would enable Gbit ethernet over USB and also 2 or more external monitors through USB2DVI adapters like DisplayLink which are a bit too slow with USB 2.0.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#57

Post by bowmande » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:35 PM UTC

I just bought the 13 inch Macbook Air and love it. I do Rails and mobile development on it and have no issues. I would think that many overestimate their needs. For me the portability combined with the speed makes the 13inch MBA amazing. I would be interested possibly in a 15inch, but only if it came with more speed or battery life.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#58

Post by benohear » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:54 PM UTC

hendler wrote: post #4

Why no mention of "Sandy Bridge" quad core? That's the most significant performance boost I'm expecting. (I'd comment on the page, but there are no comments enabled).

One issue with the quad core is heat, as those are 45W TDP. I was recently looking at a Lenovo W510 (main attraction: 16GB RAM), but the consensus seemed to be that as soon as the processor was put under stress it overheated which in turn caused the processor to throttle, which seems to defeat the point a little bit.

17'' machines seem to be OK with it though.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#59

Post by jburwell » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:57 PM UTC

Glad to see pure speculation making the front page. It's a sad commentary when you a few links to that vaunted journal Mac Rumors would vastly increase the credibility of a post. I am sure some would love to see a 15" MacBook Air and the demise of the glass screen, but airing those desires is not news.

Re: Speculation on the next MacBook Pro

#60

Post by benohear » Mon, Jan 31, 2011, 12:58 PM UTC

pclark wrote: post #17

moeffju wrote: post #13

I bought a new MBP a few months ago and back then, I was a little annoyed that I could not wait for the new versions to come out that would sure obsolete the computer I would buy now. Hearing this speculation, I'm even more glad I didn't wait. The speculation makes sense. But compared with my current setup - MBP 15" HiRes AntiGlare, replaced SuperDrive with a 240G OCZ Vertex 2 in OptiBay, installed 8G RAM - I don't s…

Do you simply not worry about having no worry due to the OptiBay? I'm tempted. I'm also concerned about harming the resale value by installing an OptiBay...

That's one of the main reasons I recently decided to go for a Thinkpad over a Mac. Untill SSD prices drop, the dual drive seems like the best strategy (512MB SSDs are way too expensive), and I really didn't feel like doing DIY on a brand new laptop.