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Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

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Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#401

Post by excursionist »

ripley12 wrote: post #305
excursionist wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tooling and speed. That's too vague to be of any use. What tooling? What benchmarks? > I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server. The fact that you like SSMS doesn't really say anything about tooling for PostgreSQL. I find the quality of PostgreSQL tooling great. There is certainly plenty of reason to believe PostgreSQL is superior to MS SQL [1]. I don't ag…

You’re a little combative, huh? As I’m sure you’re aware, publishing benchmarks of commercial RDBMSs is usually prohibited - I’m just passing on what I’ve heard from an expert about query optimizers.

> You’re a little combative, huh?

Interpreting the questioning of your grand claims as combative should tell you something about your own attitude.

> As I’m sure you’re aware, publishing benchmarks of commercial RDBMSs is usually prohibited

I only know that MS and Oracle prohibit publishing such benchmarks - and that's yet another reason not to use them.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#402

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

dependenttypes wrote: post #286
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Linux on 3 of the 5 computers I interact with frequently, and the Windows mess is not comparable to the Linux mess.

I use Linux on 3 of the 4 computers I interact with frequently and my experience is the exact opposite of yours. The linux ecosystem might be a mess but at least it is usable, unlike windows, where it is painful to do even the simplest task.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a simple task that is easier on Linux.

Here's an example in the other direction: install a piece of software to a different disk than the OS resides on. This is trivial in most Windows software, but requires recompilation from source for most Linux software.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#403

Post by FpUser »

headmelted wrote: post #387
FpUser wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have few laptops. One is very old, 5-6 years I think gaming Asus. It still runs all titles just fine. If I was not a programmer why would I upgrade from that one? This can obviously make people upgrade less.

Right but you’re a programmer on HN (same as most of us here I’d assume). My point was that we’re not typical users - most users don’t use a traditional computer outside of work anymore as the phone fills that gap for them. Microsoft isn’t threatened by Linux because they have way bigger things to focus on these days - ubiquitous mobile devices and proving Windows’ relevance in an age of web browsers everywhere.

I do not have crystal ball with precise stats. I do however know and communicate with many people far removed from programming. Nearly all of them have laptops, few have actual desktops. Beside as an owner of some products with 10s of thousands of customers I regularly receive customer wishes. Requests to port to Mac OSX are clearly visible. Requests to port to phones are zilch.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#404

Post by dredmorbius »

dredmorbius wrote: post #314
smacktoward wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They won't release products like Office for Linux Because the market for desktop Linux applications is too small to be worth considering. The whole reason they "love Linux" now is because Linux on the server gained too much market share for them to realistically oppose. They had to find a way to make money in that market that didn't involve somehow boiling an ocean of Linux machines. So they did. Windows is still o…

Microsoft have an established track record of offering, then withdrawing, MS Office for alternate platforms (or refusing to offer it at all). I seem to recall that there was an Office version for Sun Microsystem's Solaris, which is 99.99...% of the way to a Linux variant. That was killed. (This may have been MSIE or an Exchange-compatible email client, I'm researching this still.) OSX is better supported, though for…

Not directly addressing my points above, but a 1996 Linux Journal piece by Michael K. Johnson describing the compatibility landscape at the time:

https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/1232

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#405

Post by excursionist »

caspper69 wrote: post #400
excursionist wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who exactly do you think you are that you can be so incredibly presumptuous? Says the guy grouping the entire Linux community under 'crusty 50 year old basement dwellers'. And your '20 years in the industry' means nothing to me, if you're trying to impress me you failed.

Well, your reading comprehension is what impresses me the least. You presumably read all of my comments and still typed that. I'm not sure how, because it is a direct contradiction to what I said. It's a bit challenging to have a discussion with someone who responds to what he thinks you said, rather than what you did say.

Let me remind you what you said:

> Unfortunately, the community is still "the community," and much like those kids who wouldn't get out of their parents' basements, they're now in their 50s, crusty and pedantic as hell, sitting in their own ivory tower, incidentally not much different than the one they rebelled against in the 90s

Yeah, it's challenging to keep face after you put your foot in your mouth. Tell me more about 'muh 20 years experience'.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#406

Post by dependenttypes »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #402
dependenttypes wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Linux on 3 of the 4 computers I interact with frequently and my experience is the exact opposite of yours. The linux ecosystem might be a mess but at least it is usable, unlike windows, where it is painful to do even the simplest task.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a simple task that is easier on Linux. Here's an example in the other direction: install a piece of software to a different disk than the OS resides on. This is trivial in most Windows software, but requires recompilation from source for most Linux software.

> I'm having a hard time thinking of a simple task that is easier on Linux.

Installing any program, compiling a c file, opening non-zip archives, writing an iso to a usb, counting the lines that contain a certain word in a file, removing the preinstalled spyware, etc.

> install a piece of software to a different disk than the OS resides on

Windows is certainly much better than this than most distros (although it is not perfect, many programs such as the sims 2 expansion packs for example had issues with being installed in another disk). That being said, I am pretty sure that Nix does not have this issue.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#407

Post by martin1975 »

swiley wrote: post #150
hamsapelea wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm the average joe is already using google drive rather than office et al. Works on linux and mac better than the office stack works on windows.

Google drive absolute shit on Linux. Idk what it’s like on Windows but all Linux has is the web UI anyway so it’s probably the same. It feels almost intentionally bad, I’m not sure what’s going on there but I’m pretty sure you couldn’t pay me to use it. IMO at least with SMB you don’t have to use that godawful file manager.

I agree. I've used rclone and another ML based program (forgot its name) with varying success for GDrive on Linux. RClone seems to be the best so far for my use case.

I wish Google provided better integration of GDrive w/Linux...

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#408

Post by caspper69 »

excursionist wrote: post #405
caspper69 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, your reading comprehension is what impresses me the least. You presumably read all of my comments and still typed that. I'm not sure how, because it is a direct contradiction to what I said. It's a bit challenging to have a discussion with someone who responds to what he thinks you said, rather than what you did say.

Let me remind you what you said: > Unfortunately, the community is still "the community," and much like those kids who wouldn't get out of their parents' basements, they're now in their 50s, crusty and pedantic as hell, sitting in their own ivory tower, incidentally not much different than the one they rebelled against in the 90s Yeah, it's challenging to keep face after you put your foot in your mouth. Tell me more…

I'm not going to carry on with you in two forks when you ignore what I said in the other.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#409

Post by Wowfunhappy »

pytester wrote: post #112
Someone1234 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. Constantly looking for others to blame (Microsoft, DRM, Google, Valve, Apple, etc) doesn't change that fact. The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that. Linux Desktop is exclusively designed for Linux developers, it is…

>People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. There is a reason why it is not offered as an option to be preinstalled on laptops except in a few instances. That reason is not "because it is bad". The windows license is a tax on laptops. End of story. I have a dell xps 13 and even I paid it (dell's developer edition laptop is often hard to acquire for some reason).

> That reason is not "because it is bad".

I think it quite literally is, or at least that's a part of it (I won't say Microsoft strong-arming has zero effect). Linux would be an exceedingly poor experience for most customers—worse even than Windows with all the preinstalled crapware some manufacturers add.

The first netbooks ran Linux. The choice seemed to make sense. Cost was paramount, and manufacturers needed something exceedingly lightweight.

But I remember reviews from the time explicitly recommending that people ignore any netbooks that don't come with Windows. It didn't take very long before they almost all switched over to XP.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#410

Post by zzo38computer »

It seems possible to me that they may make Office usable from web browsers on non-Windows systems (probably with a few features missing, some of that just due to the limitation imposed by the web browser anyways), but probably not a native Linux program. I do not expect them to drop Win32 and DirectX; however, maybe later they might make a few contributions to ReactOS (although probably not enough). What they say about Active Directory I suppose may be done in the way mentioned in that article, seems not very unlikely to me.

I do not really think Microsoft "love" Linux all the way, although it seem to me they do "love" Linux more than they used to, at least.

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