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Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

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Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#21

Post by empath75 »

grecy wrote: post #16
roland35 wrote: post #3

Basically: the stainless steel, hard edged design has quite a few cost-savings for manufacturing but may effect aerodynamics, weight, and durability (large flat sections of metal are more likely to dent than curved). It will be interesting to see how the pros/cons play out for Tesla with the cybertruck!

> durability (large flat sections of metal are more likely to dent than curved). I take it you didn't see the part of the presentation where they hit the Cybertruck with a sledge hammer with no effect. The "regular pickup door" did not fair so well.

So what happens when you get into an accident with this thing? Do you have to replace the entire body? Or does it just not properly crumple and you’ll just be dead or crippled so you won’t have to worry about it.

Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#22

Post by fiter »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #13
fiter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured they would be using a brake[0] for the bends. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_(sheet_metal_bending)

yeah but that doesn't make really sharp angles and controlling the curve where it bends precisely is hard, fighting that is going against the claim it's about manufacturing efficiency

Point well taken.

There are multiple dimensions to manufacturing efficiency, though, right? I have no appreciation for the cost of a couple dies and a machine for stamping versus the cost of a CNC break with one die, but it may play a part based on the number of units they think they will sell. (1,000? 10,000? 100,000?)

Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#23

Post by Someone1234 »

retbull wrote: post #19
Someone1234 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it function over form? They use electric motors on the door handles, bed cover, and ramp. They made the bed sides super high and hard to access the bed. It has no floor tie-downs. They gave it a glass roof where you'd lean stuff from the bed! This is absolutely form over function, they just picked a form which is controversial. PS - I actually like the Cybertruck. But I'm self aware to know it is due to all th…

Uh it looks like there are at least holes where the tie downs can fit. The glass roof is kinda nuts for sure though. Those high walls are also annoying if you want to put tool boxes in your truck. It might be possible to still be practical by making some changes to how you might store things for easy access like on a normal truck but it probably can't use current existing solutions. :/

If there are re-enforced holes to add floor anchors then that definitely resolves that issue, just didn't see any on the limited press photos released so far (only wall anchor points). Kind of want someone to do a "truck bed review" of the Cybertruck, just loading, unloading, anchoring, etc.

Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#24

Post by fiter »

jacquesm wrote: post #17
fiter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured they would be using a brake[0] for the bends. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_(sheet_metal_bending)

That's a lot slower than stamping from sheet and has all kinds of limitations with respect to angles and manufacturability. I've used them a lot making sheetmetal enclosures for industrial hardware, it's great for simple stuff, right angles and other common shapes but if you start doing sheets that have multiple bends at precise angles at odd angles to each other you'll run into the geometric limitations very quickly…

I believe that is a type of brake, a press brake.

Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#25

Post by Someone1234 »

DennisP wrote: post #20
Someone1234 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it function over form? They use electric motors on the door handles, bed cover, and ramp. They made the bed sides super high and hard to access the bed. It has no floor tie-downs. They gave it a glass roof where you'd lean stuff from the bed! This is absolutely form over function, they just picked a form which is controversial. PS - I actually like the Cybertruck. But I'm self aware to know it is due to all th…

The high sides are for overall stiffness, compensating for the flat sheet steel, which is for cheap manufacturing.

I know, I read the article. We're talking about the utility of the design they ultimately wound up with, the "why" doesn't alter that. Designs are always a trade-off, the question is did they trade-off the correct things to make a really good utilitarian truck?

Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#26

Post by sschueller »

new_realist wrote: post #4
netfl0 wrote: post #2

This was the most compelling explanation of the visuals. They are saying that Telsa put function radically over form to reduce manufacturing complexity and efficiency. This is a purely utilitarian approach that is not self-evident. I hope Telsa will put together a better presentation to explain this to the public. This is the sort of technical progress you'd like to see in other domains.

These are mostly old manufacturing ideas which affect crash safety; repairability, an street legality.

It reminds be a lot of the DeLorean.

Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#27

Post by jacquesm »

fiter wrote: post #24
jacquesm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a lot slower than stamping from sheet and has all kinds of limitations with respect to angles and manufacturability. I've used them a lot making sheetmetal enclosures for industrial hardware, it's great for simple stuff, right angles and other common shapes but if you start doing sheets that have multiple bends at precise angles at odd angles to each other you'll run into the geometric limitations very quickly…

I believe that is a type of brake, a press brake.

Ah ok, I do not know the name for that particular tool but I've seen them in use for sheetmetal bending in large quantities.

The device the OP linked to is meant to be hand operated and only for small series. Setup takes forever and then some, redoing a setup for another batch is impossible because it will all come out slightly different.

That 'press brake' uses a tool-and-die style mechanism to deform the sheet, very accurate and highly repeatable, quick as well, cycle time is a few seconds.

Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#28

Post by DennisP »

Someone1234 wrote: post #25
DennisP wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The high sides are for overall stiffness, compensating for the flat sheet steel, which is for cheap manufacturing.

I know, I read the article. We're talking about the utility of the design they ultimately wound up with, the "why" doesn't alter that. Designs are always a trade-off, the question is did they trade-off the correct things to make a really good utilitarian truck ?

Sorry, I see your point.

I saw in another article that this is their first prototype, built very quickly, so I wouldn't read too much into details like tie-downs. For the rest, I guess how useful it is depends on the customer; e.g. I saw a contractor comment that the built-in battery power and air compressor would be pretty convenient for job sites. (Of course other electric trucks would at least have the batteries, but it remains to be seen whether they'll match this on price.)

Re: Tesla's Cybertruck Approach on Auto Manufacturing and Engineering

#30

Post by tzs »

ZenModeRy wrote: post #5

This is the truck Howard Roark would build. Function over form for good reason and to hell with the critics. I for one absolutely love it.

It looks like in a couple of ways, though, they maybe did go with form over function.

1. It looks the roof over the passenger compartment peaks over the heads of the people in the front seats, and then lowers towards the back. (See photo 42 of the first gallery in the article, or photo 22 of the second gallery, or photo 10 of the third gallery, or the second photo in the Ars article [1] gallery).

This could get annoying for tall people in the back seats. For a family car, where the back seat will usually be kids, less headroom there is fine. A pickup is work vehicle and so should assume adults in back and so should have adult headroom back there.

2. The walls on the side of the cargo bed are not flat. That angled line from that end to the peak of the roof does look great...but it also means that existing truck campers [2] or camper shells [3] won't fit.

My understanding is that while bed sizes aren't quite standardized, what one manufacturer calls a short bed, standard bed, and long bed will and what another manufacturer calls short, standard, and long will be close enough to each other that a lot of accessories like campers and shells can be designed to work with both.

It looks like the Tesla will need new accessories, which only work with Tesla.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/11/tesla-wants-to-reinvent...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_camper

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camper_shell

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