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Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

english.aljazeera.net

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Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#91

Post by jmtulloss »

JonnieCache wrote: post #48
jbrechtel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statements like this are a result of our innate desire for everything to be black and white. Unfortunately, that's not the way things work. While the news networks are indeed in the business of providing what people want, they also have a hand in shaping their audience's desires. To lay the blame of crappy news solely at the feet of the audience is about as short sighted as the conspiracy notion IMHO.

>While the news networks are indeed in the business of providing what people want, they also have a hand in shaping their audience's desires. Yeah. It's a classic feedback loop. Surely this is obvious?

If your definition of "obvious" is a feedback loop, then you clearly have a very sophisticated, very select group of acquaintances. To many people I know, this concept is far from obvious.

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#92

Post by jmtulloss »

bbgm wrote: post #59
jbrechtel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statements like this are a result of our innate desire for everything to be black and white. Unfortunately, that's not the way things work. While the news networks are indeed in the business of providing what people want, they also have a hand in shaping their audience's desires. To lay the blame of crappy news solely at the feet of the audience is about as short sighted as the conspiracy notion IMHO.

I don't disagree. While Americans never come across as remotely curious about global affairs for the most part, not unless it directly involves them, perhaps it is because they have just never been exposed to a globally focused media.

I personally despise this stereotype of Americans. There may be more than a bit of truth to it, but I hate it. I try to represent the opposite, and those that I choose to associate with do as well. I also try to represent the best of what "being an American" can be.

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#93

Post by btilly »

drags wrote: post #75
btilly wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How quickly we forget. Tunisia, earlier this month. In fact that example was the impetus behind the Egyptian protest movement. If (as seems likely at this point) Egypt falls, expect to see several other governments fall as well. This is as momentous a time for the Middle East as the fall of the Iron Curtain was for Eastern Europe. (Incidentally said fall gives several more examples of how military might doesn't preve…

Not to be too pedantic, but the Eastern European "refolutions" were made possible because a) the Soviet Union and b) local Communist governments simultaneously made the decision not to use force. Those decisions (and their publicity) were a necessary condition; it's what made the difference between 1956, 1968 and 1980 on the one hand, and 1989 on the other. It will be a long and dark road for Egypt if Mubarak can suc…

Military might does not prevent the possibility of democratic revolution. However many pre-conditions are necessary before democratic revolution can happen.

For instance the military response to 1980's events in Poland were much less nasty than the earlier examples because of the economic trouble Poland was in, and its dependence on loans from Western banks. The economic fallout from the regime's attempts to navigate their way through conflicting demands helped set the stage for the events of 1989.

Without that backdrop, 1989 would have turned out very differently. No matter how much the people wanted otherwise.

As for Mubarak, I'd be willing to bet money that it is too late for him. Yes, the army can crack down. But the public images from any attempt to do so will make it unpalatable for Western companies to do business with Egypt for a long enough period of time to recreate his problems.

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#94

Post by InclinedPlane »

stevenbedrick wrote: post #55
phlux wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be interesting if someone like Keith Olberman went to Al Jazeera.

Let's see... he doesn't speak Arabic, so any "regular" journalistic skills he might have would be useless, and AFAIK he's not an expert on Egyptian culture and politics, so he doesn't have any special domain expertise that might be useful even without Arabic language skills. I'd personally rather hear more on CNN, MSNBC, etc. from actual Egyptian journalists.

There's an English version of al jazeera, where the anchors and reporters speak English and broadcast to the English speaking world. I doubt speaking Arabic is a necessity to work there.

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#95

Post by igravious »

talsraviv wrote: post #40
enry_straker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. How can you compare a nation and it's minions who are conducting a terrible subjugation of an entire group of people who made the mistake of being born there. Silly.

As an Israeli I was really hoping Hacker News could be the one online forum where I didn't have to hear generalizations about my country's right to exist. I respect your opinion and I'm sure there's more complexity and historical awareness to mutually discuss, but please keep the snarky one-liners to Reddit.

> where I didn't have to hear generalizations about my country's right to exist.

I'm not sure where you inferred that from. Criticism of Israel's policies and structural flaws is not existentialism criticism unless you have a very paranoid mindset.

> could be the one online forum

There should be no place on this globe where you should be free from the consequences of your actions. It would certainly be nicer if you could retreat somewhere and not have to listen to the grievances that people have and maybe just maybe the way to do that would be to change Israel itself and then the chorus of complaints will be silenced.

> but please keep the snarky one-liners to Reddit.

I'm sick of pro-Israeli policy supporters always using clever language and smear tactics to voice dissent. How about you try to move the debate forward and help us understand your point of view instead appearing as someone who gets touchy when the little "problem" of the ghettoization and subjugation of a whole population is mentioned.

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#96

Post by ErrantX »

jmtulloss wrote: post #92
bbgm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree. While Americans never come across as remotely curious about global affairs for the most part, not unless it directly involves them, perhaps it is because they have just never been exposed to a globally focused media.

I personally despise this stereotype of Americans. There may be more than a bit of truth to it, but I hate it. I try to represent the opposite, and those that I choose to associate with do as well. I also try to represent the best of what "being an American" can be.

An unfortunate stereotype; but it's also accurate.

It's also accurate for most of the world, period. Very few people actually care what is going on outside their sphere of influence.

I think the reason such thinking is particularly and unfairly associated with Americans is because your media agencies tend to be the biggest, the loudest and the most partisan. Plus America is a damn big place, so it is noticeable when many millions of people aren't interested in something...

I often think that those dumping general criticism like this on the US should take a careful look at their own country first, and see if their criticism is even more general than they are making it :)

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#97

Post by igravious »

igravious wrote: post #95
talsraviv wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Israeli I was really hoping Hacker News could be the one online forum where I didn't have to hear generalizations about my country's right to exist. I respect your opinion and I'm sure there's more complexity and historical awareness to mutually discuss, but please keep the snarky one-liners to Reddit.

> where I didn't have to hear generalizations about my country's right to exist. I'm not sure where you inferred that from. Criticism of Israel's policies and structural flaws is not existentialism criticism unless you have a very paranoid mindset. > could be the one online forum There should be no place on this globe where you should be free from the consequences of your actions. It would certainly be nicer if you c…

:( "to voice dissent" ... urgh, I meant "to suppress dissenting voices" of course. I really need to triple-check before hitting reply. sigh

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#98

Post by luke_s »

According to the Al Jazeera live blog for today 6 of their journalists have just been arrested in Cairo! Since the liveblog is always updating the relevant posts are:

2:40pm: Our correspondent tweets:

    Unsure if arrested or about to be deported. 6 of us held at army checkpoint outside Hilton hotel. Equipment seized too. #Egypt
2:11pm BREAKING NEWS: Six Al Jazeera journalists arrested in the Egyptian capital, Cairo.

Our correspondent there just tweeted this:

    4 soldiers entered room took our camera. Wr  ae under military arrest #Egypt #jan25
From: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/30/live-blog-...

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#99

Post by josefresco »

jbrechtel wrote: post #34
c3o wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you're young, you look at television and think, There's a conspiracy. The networks have conspired to dumb us down. But when you get a little older, you realize that's not true. The networks are in business to give people exactly what they want. That's a far more depressing thought. Conspiracy is optimistic! You can shoot the bastards! We can have a revolution! But the networks are really in business to give peo…

Statements like this are a result of our innate desire for everything to be black and white. Unfortunately, that's not the way things work. While the news networks are indeed in the business of providing what people want, they also have a hand in shaping their audience's desires. To lay the blame of crappy news solely at the feet of the audience is about as short sighted as the conspiracy notion IMHO.

The United States and it's citizens are stuck on black & white (right and wrong etc), we always have been. You want a real grey area? Try Russia where bribes and laws are close cousins. The problem with B&W is it leaves no room for the most logical explanation for most apparent conspiracies.

Re: Egypt shuts down Al Jazeera bureau

#100

Post by JonnieCache »

jmtulloss wrote: post #91
JonnieCache wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While the news networks are indeed in the business of providing what people want, they also have a hand in shaping their audience's desires. Yeah. It's a classic feedback loop. Surely this is obvious?

If your definition of "obvious" is a feedback loop, then you clearly have a very sophisticated, very select group of acquaintances. To many people I know, this concept is far from obvious.

>very sophisticated, very select group of acquaintances

I meant in the context of HN. That's a beautiful way to describe this place :)

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