Live data from Hacker News

This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

economist.com

61–70 of 135 posts

Re: This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

#61
post #9

Worth noting that The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel is not an actual Nobel Prize. It was established by a central bank so they could award people who justify the existence of central banks.

Yes, it is technically separate from the other Nobel prizes, but no one treats it any differently than the rest of them.

Re: This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

#62

Esther Duflo is the most obviously deserving Nobel Prize in Economics pick in decades. Major substantive contributions to development economics coupled with being absolutely the vanguard of the credibility revolution. The article seems to motivate criticism of RCTs in only the barest manner: "what of external validity?" No shit, Sherlock, which is why the credibility revolution also argues for frequent and cross-cont…

I am in general skeptical that statistical experiments will give use much insight into complex behavior. I think building theoritical models is the better approach to study complex systems, since then we will can explain why a certain behaviour shall manifest.

Do astrophysicists use controlled trials to study the universe?

Re: This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

#63

Esther Duflo is the most obviously deserving Nobel Prize in Economics pick in decades. Major substantive contributions to development economics coupled with being absolutely the vanguard of the credibility revolution. The article seems to motivate criticism of RCTs in only the barest manner: "what of external validity?" No shit, Sherlock, which is why the credibility revolution also argues for frequent and cross-cont…

Abhijit Banerjee was her doctoral advisor. He tutored her not the other way around. If you get any chance to read their famous book Poor Economics, you will find almost 70% RCTs were conducted in India. Classical Indian bias.

Re: This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

#64

Esther Duflo is the most obviously deserving Nobel Prize in Economics pick in decades. Major substantive contributions to development economics coupled with being absolutely the vanguard of the credibility revolution. The article seems to motivate criticism of RCTs in only the barest manner: "what of external validity?" No shit, Sherlock, which is why the credibility revolution also argues for frequent and cross-cont…

I am in general skeptical that statistical experiments will give use much insight into complex behavior. I think building theoritical models is the better approach to study complex systems, since then we will can explain why a certain behaviour shall manifest. Do astrophysicists use controlled trials to study the universe?

There's the "shut up and calculate" thing within particle physics. I don't know how seriously it's taken.

Re: This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

#65

Esther Duflo is the most obviously deserving Nobel Prize in Economics pick in decades. Major substantive contributions to development economics coupled with being absolutely the vanguard of the credibility revolution. The article seems to motivate criticism of RCTs in only the barest manner: "what of external validity?" No shit, Sherlock, which is why the credibility revolution also argues for frequent and cross-cont…

Abhijit Banerjee was her doctoral advisor. He tutored her not the other way around. If you get any chance to read their famous book Poor Economics, you will find almost 70% RCTs were conducted in India. Classical Indian bias.

What is it with India and economics? I have personally known many Indian economists, I see a lot of books written in Hindi about finance and other economic topics, and apparently many studies are conducted in India. There is something going on here, maybe a trend that will be remarked on a century from now.

Re: This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

#67
post #21

These critics should spend some time speaking to the medical research community. These aren't new questions. It kinda reveals the deep underlying assumptions; "of course we can know the results of these interventions in advance, so we must base our ethics on that"... ok, but if you already know the effects, why are you testing them? You're testing them because you don't know. Unfortunately, there's no royal road to s…

I am somewhat bothered about the reverse scenario. For example e-cigarettes, some people are eager to quote statistical data on it, but I feel we should be able to state if e-cigarettes are harmful or not from a purely theoritical standpoint, an explanation on how it interacts with the chemistry of the human body and say it is harmful or not.

We didn't send the man to the Moon on the basis of statistical experiments, we knew it was possible even before the first screw was put in on the rocket.

I am fearful that depending on experiments would lead to the same dire credibility issues that plague experimental psychology.

Re: This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

#69
post #54
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economics has an identity crisis. It is trying to be a science when it is an art/humanity. Rather than embracing it's nature it is trying to be what it is not. It's like Christianity trying to be a science via creation science. It simply does not work.

Thanks for this glib comment, it must be true since you asserted it. Frankly what I find most annoying about this comment is the implicit claim that humans are so complex that we can't possibly study it; that our existing scientific method is inadequate to describe economics. Unlike any art economics can make predictions, and we can test the validity of such predictions. That our models are insufficient right now doe…

The commenters on either side of yours make it look like doubting the validity of economics is the province of people too lazy to make a real argument. I really don't want to take their side because of how they're presenting it. But somewhere in that idiocy there's a decent point to be made.

I've always been a bit uneasy about economics because people's behavior depends on their beliefs, and their behavior as economic agents especially depends on their beliefs about the the economic theory that motivated the design of their habitat.

I expect that if a population that grew up in a system designed under assumption X and happened to eat well and always have a roof, then they will behave in a way that confirms theories compatible with X.

On the other hand, if they experienced extreme economic strife under leadership that believes in the validity of X, then--as data points--they're more likely to influence economic theory testing in the opposite way.

How can you know whether your predictions are correct because they're objectively true about human behavior, versus them being correct because your sample set has been influenced by the same economic theory that motivated the prediction in the first place?

Is statistics really so powerful that it can eliminate the circularity from the situation?

Re: This year’s Nobel prizes prompt soul-searching among economists

#70
post #48

Economics continues to try and reinvent itself. I’m curious how the example of an RCT in deworming schedules for children counts as Economics. This seems like a field in its death throes. Nobels for ‘credibility research’?

The effect size of an intervention (deworming) on a measured outcome (test scores) is, almost by definition, its efficiency. And that's within economic's wheelhouse if you're studying paper clip manufacturing or schools. But, ultimately, I think the researchers would probably answer with something closer to "I don't care if it's economics. I consider it both interesting and relevant", and so would the Nobel judges.

Yeah, it doesn’t matter in the end, we have learned something important. But there is some context to all this - (macro)economics has had a huge influence on the world through monetary policy. This influence is waning due to financial crises and the apparent failure of neoliberalism among other things.
Post reply on HN