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An update on YC China

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: An update on YC China

#181

Post by ddevault »

dang wrote: post #14
brink wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no real reason why given. It seems that HN's "No politics" policy flows over to their blog updates as well.

HN doesn't have a no politics policy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... Edit: maybe I should add that we do moderate posts that are just political, i.e. don't have an intellectually curious angle, as well as threads that depart from the path of curious discussion and sink into flames.

I think you should adopt your "moderate with a light touch on sensitive YC-affecting topics" tactics for this thread.

Re: An update on YC China

#182

Post by emmelaich »

zlei wrote: post #129
harimau777 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US certainly has its problems, but I don't think it's fair to draw a moral equivalence with what's happening in China.

Chinese citizen here. I guess you're implying that certain bad things are happening in China. Do you really live in China and see those things happen, or just hear about them from the media? And is it possible that some of the media in US are inhonest? Just as there're inhonest media in China. I'm not fighting you on this topic; just don't understand why there's so much hatred towards our country.

It's not hatred and it's not against your country.

It's distrust of your government.

There is an enormous amount of respect and fascination with China and its history, culture and people. Your current government is wasting that.

China was going in a positive direction until Xi Jinping.

Re: An update on YC China

#183

Post by dumbfoundded »

criddell wrote: post #162
iooi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably have a significant investment from Chinese LPs. It could put those investors in a very awkward situation if YC was more explicit with their statement -- we've all seen how childishly defensive the Chinese government can get.

That money isn't that important. History isn't going to look back and think that YCombinator should have done more to look out for the wealth Chinese investors.

but dude, think of the shareholder value

/s

Re: An update on YC China

#184

Post by doublekill »

shasheene wrote: post #60

It suprises me that intelligent, reasonable people like Andrew Ng and Sam Altman were willing to help develop and invest in the Chinese Communist Party's AI/ML capabilities helping to create an authoritarian surveillance state used to repress minorities (Uighers, Tibetans, Falun Gong) on a scale not seen since Adolf Hitler. The CCP and private companies are hand-in-glove. The risks of working with state-owned enterpr…

Did not downvote, I hate all views equally.

Perhaps it is the enormous cognitive dissonance. Western companies also take military funding and their surveillance systems were always better and more invasive.

The US is using statutes for national security interests to ban Chinese companies for contributing to alledged human rights abuses. Meanwhile we have documented human rights abuses in the West, and a US that does not shy away to cover a trade war and skewed commercial motives with anti-China propaganda.

US companies and agencies surveil outside the US. Capitalism-commercialization gave our rights to the likes of Zuckerberg and Amazon, who will turn your door bell into a police camera.

The Godwin was also a tad unnecessary. Perhaps you are a bit caught up in the heat of the moment. The propaganda machine is definately turning up the heat, so I do not blame you. Try to pose your argument without claiming the moral highground of the "free world". It is never fortunate that an entire country and its people struggles.

Accusing Ng and Altman of helping build a fascist surveillance state is a nasty accusation, which I feel you are not allowed to make.

Remember when the US had concentration camps for Japanese-Americans? Countries can change even without pressure or backlash (the US did not face any). Can you think of a modern group of people in the US being secluded from participation, facing state racism, and being locked away in ghettos, with no hope of social movement? Would China be justified in boycotting or sanctioning US companies for contributing to ICE, Guantanamo bay, or police violence, or Flynt's water, or Trump's racism?

Freedom of religion gave the US scientology and TV pastors and schools preaching creationism. It gave Europe extremist Salafism and terrorist attacks and people using the Bible to go after immigrants. You have to see China in that context: they see religion as a dangerous memetic virus to indoctronate youthful people into believing something not of their own choice. Countries have a right to make their own laws and their own tactics for improvement and combating extremism.

Edit: you may also receive downvotes from people who hate to hear negative stuff on China, or are paid 50 cents to do so.

Re: An update on YC China

#185

Post by erikpukinskis »

fiblye wrote: post #167
pcbro141 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ~1 million Uighurs the Chinese government has in concentration camps. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/ch...

I don’t think any major business in the world cares about this. They only care about things that affect their own revenue streams, and the average consumer isn’t boycotting companies for not doing anything about it. Seriously. Show me one major corporation that cited this as a reason for pulling out of China. I’m not justifying the actions—I’m saying western industries don’t care about genocide. Because they don’t.

That’s a tautology. Major businesses can’t care about anything else.

But major businesses aren’t the whole economy. Just a part.

Re: An update on YC China

#186

Post by mrobot »

ivalm wrote: post #86
tptacek wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What elephant? Can you be more specific about what's controversial about this? Expansion into China would at least be a coherent basis for this stuff; then, sure, you'd want to know what compromises YC might be forced to make to stay in the good graces of their new host. This is YC withdrawing from China.

Totalitarian actions of the regime primarily against Muslim minorities (Uighurs), including concentration camps with >1M people.

[flagged]

Re: An update on YC China

#188

Post by peteretep »

tomnipotent wrote: post #172
peteretep wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be deeply misinformed about what the term McCarthyism means.

Mc·Car·thy·ism: "A campaign or practice that endorses the use of unfair allegations and investigations." No, he's not deeply misinformed. Perfect example is the ridiculous spying bullshit that SuperMicro was accused of earlier this year.

You appear to have copy-pasted this definition from a blog article, and then added bullet points between the syllables to make it look more official. Yikes!

A real dictionary will show you that McCarthy-esque allegations are specifically treasonous.

Re: An update on YC China

#189

Post by DavidHm »

yumraj wrote: post #97
colechristensen wrote: post #80

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

While I completely agree with you, YC is a private organization and not a political one. The above message allows everyone to save face while getting the job done. YC doesn't need to say anything beyond this.

And yet private organizations so often want to sit on the moral perch and pet themselves about all the non-profit oriented actions they take.

Re: An update on YC China

#190

Post by yumraj »

colechristensen wrote: post #106
yumraj wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I completely agree with you, YC is a private organization and not a political one. The above message allows everyone to save face while getting the job done. YC doesn't need to say anything beyond this.

That is exactly the problem. Saving face. Causing PRC to lose face is the only way to stop them outside a war which nobody wants. If American companies started cutting ties and explicitly calling out their behavior it would make a real difference.

In my observation, for what it's worth, current China regime does not react well to losing face. They just dig in further. Not sure if it's a cultural artifact. We have seen that time and time again.

However, China will react to economic loss. As such pulling out of China, surely and quietly, is the best approach.

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