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An update on YC China

blog.ycombinator.com

111–120 of 403 posts

Re: An update on YC China

#111
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people in the 90s assumed "prosperity" in general would be a panacea; but the hypothesis here isn't really to do with GDP more generally (because that can all be generated and captured by the state, as in middle-eastern oil-producing countries) but rather to do with a certain inevitable demographic shift. China has already started on a shift called industrialization : a massive demographic shift from poverty-cl…

You need to think of China like North Korea. There is very little chance they are going to democratize in the near future.

All else being equal, sure.

But China are still making construction workers into nuveau-riche at a prodigious rate. They're creating the proto-Rockefellers and proto-Carnegies of China, right now. Those people, and especially their children (who would become the actual Rockefellers and Carnegies of China), are going to have some impact. China might "manage" (i.e. suppress) that impact, but a large bourgeoisie class is uniquely powerful in terms of its ability to throw money around to influence foreign politics as a knife against the throat of the local state.

Consider: the Napoleonic Wars weren't a consequence of the French Revolution; they were the second phase of the French Revolution. Sometimes the best thing to do to get your government in better shape, is to convince every other major power that your state is the bad guy and needs its ass kicked.

Right now, China is (barely) keeping a lid on global unrest against them—but a big part of that is that right now, Chinese citizens are still mostly positive and patriotic about their homeland, as you'd expect of people who just went through an industrialization boom. Take that coefficient and flip the sign the other way, though...

Re: An update on YC China

#112

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

In my opinion, one party California is a fascist state. Hey, SF just elected a Chavist as a DA: that person actually went and helped Hugo Chavez administration. By that yardstick, doing business in California is also immortal.

I don’t expect anything less from a brainwashed Chinese national (who is most likely living in California and still pledges alliegiance to the dictator xi bao zi) who thinks his whataboutism will work on hacker news

Re: An update on YC China

#113

Strange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. I could see them hitting some roadblocks and wanting to try again to get into China, but that would be a reasonable thing to come out and say. It also would be reasonable to come out and say they've changed their minds due to political climate or some other risks. Instead its... the new guy is busy?

I think it's reasonable to stick with what YC knows best: Startups in the US. Perhaps this will be an opportunity to use the capital that would've been directed to China for American startups. I am also encouraged they are still funding Chinese companies and have a nuanced approach to China in this highly politically charged environment that reminds me of McCarthyism.

Can you explain how opposition to China's human rights violations are comparable to McCarthyism?

Re: An update on YC China

#114
post #103

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

Virtue signaling doesn't work in business. Should yc do any business in the US which is mired in illegal wars and regime change operation all over the world? What about Saudi arabia? Should silicon valley and traditional media give up the billions in Saudi investment? Every major economic player is evil in some form or another. And the parallel with china isn't nazi Germany. It's with 19th century US.

You have to choose your battles. China is literally building concentration camps. Comparing Xi to Hitler is not exaggeration.

Virtue signaling absolutely works with China. "Losing face" is a big part of their culture and if important business partners start dropping off like flies and calling out their atrocities, they will take notice. Just look at how much of a fuss that NBA manager's tweet made.

>What about Saudi arabia? Should silicon valley and traditional media give up the billions in Saudi investment?

Yes.

Re: An update on YC China

#115

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

In my opinion, one party California is a fascist state. Hey, SF just elected a Chavist as a DA: that person actually went and helped Hugo Chavez administration. By that yardstick, doing business in California is also immortal.

Yeah, California is exactly the same as a state that throws hundreds of thousands to millions of people in concentration camps, prohibits freedom of speech and religion, murders and steals the organs of political prisoners, and actively monitors everything you do.

Re: An update on YC China

#116

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

In my opinion, one party California is a fascist state. Hey, SF just elected a Chavist as a DA: that person actually went and helped Hugo Chavez administration. By that yardstick, doing business in California is also immortal.

The difference is we can also vote that person out of office and there won't be violence to prevent it.

Re: An update on YC China

#117

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

>...until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

I'm afraid a single carrier battle group wouldn't be much of a deterrent these days. The US no longer has naval overmatch in that region. Barring any gross incompetence on PLA-N's part, or the US having highly classified tricks up its sleeve, USN would need several fleets to achieve anything but a pyrrhic victory in such a conflict.[0]

I otherwise completely agree with your sentiments, and living in a world where what amounts to essentially a fascist state having military supremacy—even if only limited in scope and regional for now—is quite chilling.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/china-ar...

Re: An update on YC China

#118
post #103

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

Virtue signaling doesn't work in business. Should yc do any business in the US which is mired in illegal wars and regime change operation all over the world? What about Saudi arabia? Should silicon valley and traditional media give up the billions in Saudi investment? Every major economic player is evil in some form or another. And the parallel with china isn't nazi Germany. It's with 19th century US.

[dead]

Re: An update on YC China

#119
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As inflammatory as my last statement is going to seem, it's a genuine question, I'm not trying to bait you - But how does >investment Versus >Human Rights Equal >I'm torn on the China issue Do your morals and conscience have a price tag?

> Do your morals and conscience have a price tag? Read his comment again. It's pretty clear that's the case.

Everyone has a price tag, silly to pretend otherwise.

Re: An update on YC China

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is PRC?

It's the technical name for China. Personally I don't use it; China is not a "people's republic".

Technically, there are two governments that claim to be China: the People's Republic of China, and the Republic of China. Both claim to rule Taiwan and mainland China. "China", then, is underspecified, because no one means to claim that the ROC is running concentration camps.
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