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An update on YC China

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: An update on YC China

#91

Post by SandersAK »

noobermin wrote: post #52
SandersAK wrote: post #45

Personally I was really disappointed when YC opened up shop in China - to me it really revealed a Profits over People approach and was pretty brazen at the time. Happy to see (for whatever reason) that they're recommitting to communities that (at least on the surface) don't support fascist overtures.

Echoing another poster, people and individuals who are Chinese are not their government. You shouldn't equate working with Chinese individuals and talent as a tacit support of their government.

You should do more digging into how "doing business in China" works before you make this statement.

Re: An update on YC China

#93

Post by throwaway2048 »

raywu wrote: post #87
jessewmc wrote: post #11

Strange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. I could see them hitting some roadblocks and wanting to try again to get into China, but that would be a reasonable thing to come out and say. It also would be reasonable to come out and say they've changed their minds due to political climate or some other risks. Instead its... the new guy is busy?

Why do you think it's political climate that changed YC's mind? With or without political climate being an issue, doing business in China is different and relies on of relationship building that takes a long time to nurture. It might just be hard!

lets just say its convenient timing for a "strategy changed back"

Re: An update on YC China

#94

Post by throwaway2048 »

tptacek wrote: post #40
Analemma_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be silly, Sam Altman said that he was much more comfortable discussing controversial ideas in Beijing than in San Francisco; YC couldn't possibly be self-censoring because of fear of Chinese reprisal. /s

These criticisms don't even make sense. YC is announcing that they're not expanding formally into China, which is something China very much would want them to do.

China could still do a lot of harm to both YC companies and what and who remains of YC china/MiraclePlus. Its pretty obvious that the boss woke up one day and gee we decided to completely withdraw from a country isn't the whole story.

Re: An update on YC China

#95

Post by president »

derefr wrote: post #73
president wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he pulled out over China's human rights issues, I have a newfound respect for PG. Very few leaders today are willing to support basic rights of fellow human beings over personal profits.

What would you think of a VC who was investing with a thesis that enlarging+enriching the Chinese bourgeoisie (i.e. entrepreneurs) would give Chinese citizens as a whole more power relative to the Chinese state, and thus likely accelerate the shift toward more democratic forms of government that seems to inevitably come to "developed nations" once they have enough people who've "got theirs" and now want to signal the…

I would say that VC is naive and doesn't understand the lengths that the CCP goes to prevent a free democracy. The current regime understood what happened during the fall of the Soviet Union and are extremely keen on not allowing that to happen again. We have already given China many decades to free their markets and their people based on the principle that "free markets lead to wealth and wealth leads to democratization" and look where we ended up. Furthering this line only emboldens the CCP.

Re: An update on YC China

#96

Post by ilamont »

As others have noted, the announcement does not reveal the thinking that went into this decision. But certainly pg and other principals are aware of what's happening in the People's Republic of China under the Xi regime. pg retweeted the following news items about China recently:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1195728248040087552 The New York Times @nytimes Nov 16 China has detained up to a million Muslims, a campaign it calls a benevolent and routine effort against the pull of extremism. But 403 pages of Communist Party documents we obtained reveal how officials plotted to carry out a ruthless, coercive clampdown.

https://twitter.com/CoveringDelta/status/1196491222765965314 Demetri Kofinas @CoveringDelta Nov 18 We've known for years that governments are interested in developing bioweapons that target specific populations. What I didn't know until this week's episode are the lengths to which the CCP has reportedly gone to obtain the genomic data needed to do it.

https://twitter.com/nathanattrill/status/1192670115017310208 Nathan Attrill 周雷森 @nathanattrill Nov 8 In China, it’s possible to pre-book an organ transplant, something that would be impossible under a voluntary donor system – raising suspicions of widespread organ harvesting.

Re: An update on YC China

#97

Post by yumraj »

colechristensen wrote: post #80

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

While I completely agree with you, YC is a private organization and not a political one.

The above message allows everyone to save face while getting the job done. YC doesn't need to say anything beyond this.

Re: An update on YC China

#98

Post by nradov »

pcbro141 wrote: post #62
paulddraper wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the elephant in the room? U.S. tariffs? Honk Kong unrest? IP violations?

The ~1 million Uighurs the Chinese government has in concentration camps. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/ch...

Supposedly ethnic Han Chinese men are also being assigned by the government to sleep with the wives of detained Uyghur men.

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/cosleeping-103120191...

Re: An update on YC China

#99

Post by learc83 »

yumraj wrote: post #97
colechristensen wrote: post #80

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

While I completely agree with you, YC is a private organization and not a political one. The above message allows everyone to save face while getting the job done. YC doesn't need to say anything beyond this.

>Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable

>While I completely agree with you, YC is a private organization and not a political

If you agree that doing business with a fascist state is deplorable, it doesn't stop being deplorable just because you're a private company.

Re: An update on YC China

#100

Post by throwaway2048 »

noobermin wrote: post #52
SandersAK wrote: post #45

Personally I was really disappointed when YC opened up shop in China - to me it really revealed a Profits over People approach and was pretty brazen at the time. Happy to see (for whatever reason) that they're recommitting to communities that (at least on the surface) don't support fascist overtures.

Echoing another poster, people and individuals who are Chinese are not their government. You shouldn't equate working with Chinese individuals and talent as a tacit support of their government.

You don't do business in China without supporting the government, and them supporting you, period.

Plenty of Chinese people call the communist party "The organization" because as far as they are concerned, its the only power structure that exists in China.

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