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An update on YC China

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: An update on YC China

#41

Post by president »

justinzollars wrote: post #28

I imagined this was going to happen. Lately PG has been more vocal on twitter regarding Human Rights issues in China. I understand this is a very difficult decision. I'm not sure if its right or wrong. From the perspective of Human Rights its probably right, but from the perspective of investment its difficult considering China's growth prospects. I'm torn on the China issue and I personally hope our two countries ca…

If he pulled out over China's human rights issues, I have a newfound respect for PG. Very few leaders today are willing to support basic rights of fellow human beings over personal profits.

Re: An update on YC China

#42

Post by Mizza »

Launching in China was a stupid, shamelessly greedy and ultimately embarrassing decision to begin with, but it's good that they've changed course.

To those who have been living under a rock for the past thirty years: The PRC is a genocidal, expansionist ethnostate that tortures and kills those it deems enemies, which is everybody who isn't ethnically Han and supportive of the leader of the Communist Party. YC knew this when it opened an office there.

My real question is - now that you've invited them in and shown them around, will they create a state-owned YCombinator of their own? It'll be interesting to see how elite state-owned venture capital will work.

Re: An update on YC China

#43

Post by justinzollars »

ddevault wrote: post #32
Loughla wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As inflammatory as my last statement is going to seem, it's a genuine question, I'm not trying to bait you - But how does >investment Versus >Human Rights Equal >I'm torn on the China issue Do your morals and conscience have a price tag?

This has got to be satire. >I understand this is a very difficult decision. I'm not sure if its right or wrong. From the perspective of Human Rights its probably right, but from the perspective of investment its difficult considering China's growth prospects. I can't believe a human being would actually write this. The level of cognitive dissonance would be off the charts.

I don't really appreciate that. I would argue I'm pretty well informed on China. I've traveled to China, I've worked with the Chinese for over a decade across various roles, my grandfather helped industrialize China, and I've read many great books on China. Personally I retweeted Hillary Clinton's support of Hong Kong protestors while I was in Beijing, so I put myself at personal risk in doing this.

But lets address your comment directly: "The level of cognitive dissonance would be off the charts." Is it?

One book I recommend is Graham Allison "Destined for War".

https://www.amazon.com/Destined-War-America-Escape-Thucydide...

One question that specifically stands out from his book - is that the West believes in Universal Human Rights. China obviously does not. This is a point of conflict and we have some very difficult questions to address in the future. Suppose China attacks Taiwan. What if China has a second Tiananmen in Hong Kong? Do we sanction China? What if China responds with more violence? What do we do? Do we go to war? This is an obvious point of conflict. And these are questions that we will have to work out in the future.

From the perspective of an investor, these are also difficult decisions. We can see this in how the NBA has responded, and how South Park has responded - each differently. Is it really wise to Balkanize the world if our goal is to encourage China to adopt Human Rights? How would a second cold war help?

Obviously I don't have the answers. But I can recognize the conflict from the perspective of a VC whose goal is to make money.

Re: An update on YC China

#44

Post by iooi »

jessewmc wrote: post #11

Strange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. I could see them hitting some roadblocks and wanting to try again to get into China, but that would be a reasonable thing to come out and say. It also would be reasonable to come out and say they've changed their minds due to political climate or some other risks. Instead its... the new guy is busy?

They probably have a significant investment from Chinese LPs. It could put those investors in a very awkward situation if YC was more explicit with their statement -- we've all seen how childishly defensive the Chinese government can get.

Re: An update on YC China

#45

Post by SandersAK »

Personally I was really disappointed when YC opened up shop in China - to me it really revealed a Profits over People approach and was pretty brazen at the time.

Happy to see (for whatever reason) that they're recommitting to communities that (at least on the surface) don't support fascist overtures.

Re: An update on YC China

#46

Post by paulddraper »

jessewmc wrote: post #11

Strange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. I could see them hitting some roadblocks and wanting to try again to get into China, but that would be a reasonable thing to come out and say. It also would be reasonable to come out and say they've changed their minds due to political climate or some other risks. Instead its... the new guy is busy?

What exactly is the elephant in the room?

U.S. tariffs?

Honk Kong unrest?

IP violations?

Re: An update on YC China

#47

Post by yourbandsucks »

SandersAK wrote: post #45

Personally I was really disappointed when YC opened up shop in China - to me it really revealed a Profits over People approach and was pretty brazen at the time. Happy to see (for whatever reason) that they're recommitting to communities that (at least on the surface) don't support fascist overtures.

Chinese people are people too, you know.

Re: An update on YC China

#49

Post by tptacek »

jessewmc wrote: post #11

Strange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. I could see them hitting some roadblocks and wanting to try again to get into China, but that would be a reasonable thing to come out and say. It also would be reasonable to come out and say they've changed their minds due to political climate or some other risks. Instead its... the new guy is busy?

What elephant? Can you be more specific about what's controversial about this? Expansion into China would at least be a coherent basis for this stuff; then, sure, you'd want to know what compromises YC might be forced to make to stay in the good graces of their new host. This is YC withdrawing from China.

Re: An update on YC China

#50

Post by yourbandsucks »

justinzollars wrote: post #43
ddevault wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has got to be satire. >I understand this is a very difficult decision. I'm not sure if its right or wrong. From the perspective of Human Rights its probably right, but from the perspective of investment its difficult considering China's growth prospects. I can't believe a human being would actually write this. The level of cognitive dissonance would be off the charts.

I don't really appreciate that. I would argue I'm pretty well informed on China. I've traveled to China, I've worked with the Chinese for over a decade across various roles, my grandfather helped industrialize China, and I've read many great books on China. Personally I retweeted Hillary Clinton's support of Hong Kong protestors while I was in Beijing, so I put myself at personal risk in doing this. But lets address…

The west believes in universal human rights as a story to tell the rubes and a stick to selectively enforce their interests.

Pinochet, the Saudis, Saddam, but then he was a bad guy, Bin Laden, but then he was a bad guy...

When someone tells me we must take hostile action in the name of the greater good, I start to get suspicious.

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