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Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

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Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#231

Post by ClumsyPilot »

FpUser wrote: post #218
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"modern laptops are good enough." Good enough for what? I am not sure I understand what you are claiming or how it disagrees with an OP. The point is, for many users the computer is just where they run a browser. It does not matter whether they have desktop or laptop, and how powerful they are.

The point is, for many users the computer is just where they run a browser Well there is a big difference between MANY and MOST . There is a whole world of creative people to whom browser on a phone just does not cut it.

Percentage of people living on web-apps is > 10%. Linux Desktop is 0.8% according to Statcounter, September 19

Which is the bigger threat?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#232

Post by tannhaeuser »

stiray wrote: post #130
juliangoldsmith wrote: post #17

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

I have dumped windows completely after spending some time on windows 8 (fyi: system level developer, but... Well i did my share on aix, hpux, solaris, linux, vms too, but I did love windows... Before the age of manifests, putting com interfaces into kernel32.dll,...) What troubles me THE most on linux is interoperability of applications, there is literally nothing replacing microsoft "office" (not a product Office) s…

> Exchange, Outlook, Sharepoint, Lync (Skype for business) integrated into Office mesh... They have great product.

After a multi-year hiatus of using Windows (because my customers were running mostly on Linux, Mac OS or did BYOD), on my current industrial/research project I'm back to using Office (Skype for Biz, Outlook for team comm and partially Sharepoint, Excel and even PowerPoint (!) for spec docs) on Windows VMs and I have to say I can't fathom how these people can get anything done at all. Lync/Skype4b is bordering on ususable for me (normal Skype works just fine), and it not being available for Linux is a show-stopper. The only tolerable tool that doesn't get in the way all the time is Excel, and even that has laughably primitive versioning in SP compared to tools of the git era. With this office software lineup I think web-based tools will totally dominate the next decade.

Classic office suites on Linux is a sufficiently well solved problem with Open Office/Libre Office IMO, and I don't expect it to get any better, ever. The reason is simply that classic office software where people print out, sign, scan, paper-mail, and fax letters has run its course.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#233

Post by ClumsyPilot »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #229
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this 'legacy software's moniker, all the most productive software falls into this category. Look at the Autodesk Suite, Adobe Suite, Enterprise Architect, blender3D, Unity game engine, a traditional IDE like Jetbrains or VisualStudio. They have waay more power than the their web-based or, worse yet, electron competitors.

I was only referring to software that's still tied to Windows out of legacy/inertia. I'm not saying all desktop applications are legacy. But It's appropriate because if those application were going to be rewritten today, there is no way they would tie them exclusively to the Win32 API. Blender, Jetbrains IDE's, and even VSCode (pretty sure Unity is multiplatform too) are all working just fine with multiplatform and a…

I agree in principle, i really want most software to be multi-platform.

However I cannot ignore the reality that multi-platform software is fraught with peril, either for the developer (QT and the like) or for the user (electron).

Each platform moves, introduces updates, removes support and features (looking at you, OsX!).

For some people the choice is: single platform, or no software at all.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#234

Post by skissane »

oneplane wrote: post #199
delusional wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who make up the corporation are people. They need to be motivated, and they no not mobilize immediately.

Depends on shareholders, doesn't it? Those are the people that 'make up' the corp. The rest are pawns that either fall in line or end up recognizing that the only way to win the game is to not play (and thus quit).

If employees think their employer is doing something unethical, that harms morale.

If morale is harmed, good people are more likely to leave. If an employer has a poor reputation, it becomes harder to hire employees with in-demand skills.

Poor retention and difficulty in recruiting employees can end up harming the business.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#235

Post by dang »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #161
hamsapelea wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest i never worked in such a backwards office where people still use ms office

Your condescension makes it clear why you don't understand things.

Please don't respond to a bad comment with a worse one, regardless of how wrong or annoying it was.

We've had to ask you this kind of thing more than once. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site more to heart? We'd be grateful.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#236

Post by leblancfg »

outside1234 wrote: post #43
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Office was available for Linux, some organizations could consider deploying Linux workstations with Office since that's what most users/employees need is basically a browser (100%/users) and the Office suite (50-90%/users). Office Online is severely gimped as noted in the article and is solely to counteract adoption of Google Office.

What is a good example of it being gimped? I honestly think its better online than the apps themselves.

See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescriptio...

When you see a footnote next to a 'Yes' in the online version, read it as a 'No for 90% of use cases'.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#237

Post by dleslie »

gowld wrote: post #123
dleslie wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google proved the model for embracing, extending and controlling open source by way of Android and the shift to Google Play Services. Start open and let the walled garden grow within.

How does a not-open-source product control open-source? Anyone can try to build an open source alternative to GPS on whatever hardware they can obtain, using Android Open Source Project (AOSP). Without Google open source, they've have to replicate it's functionality from scratch. If AOSP never existed, Android would still be Android (GPL allows proprietary Android) and would still be as popular as it is. iOS was neve…

Yes, anyone can make an open source alternative; the point is that the popular system will remain closed and controlled. Free alternatives don't become a threat when you control their implementation target.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#238

Post by WorldMaker »

vetinari wrote: post #120
derefr wrote: post #42

I’m honestly surprised that Microsoft aren’t working with Linux vendors in an attempt to solve Linux problems by more deeply integrating Windows-styled solutions into Linux, such that the Linux client ecosystem becomes more dependent on the Windows infrastructure ecosystem. That’d be the natural Azure-focused equivalent to “embrace, extend, extinguish.” For example, Linux DNS resolution is an arcane mess of upstream…

NMBD and WINS name resolutions are dead on Windows too; normal DNS is used since the AD was introduced. For service discovery, WSD is supposed to be used now, Windows 10 and Windows 2016/19 are slowly killing SMB1. Windows itself doesn't really play nice with mDNS/DNS-SD (Bonjour).

Windows works just fine with mDNS/DNS-SD, it's just that they learned a lot from WINS and SMB1 and are a lot tighter on which multicast IPs they respond to and when. (With security things like "HomeGroups" and similar mediating.) It doesn't always support the .local pseudo-DNS, but that's a relatively more recent standard, and also another place where Windows' back compat and learned mistakes cause it to be very cautious with .local addresses, especially given some Enterprises still use .local for LAN addresses not intended to be multicast DNS, despite that now being the IETF recognized standard.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#239

Post by dlivingston »

Jach wrote: post #193
dlivingston wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response is little more than, "no, you're wrong, and I'm right." I tend to agree with parent that the general Linux UI/UX experience (even the flagship Linux OS, Ubuntu) is subpar compared to commercial operating systems. You only make a serious argument in the last bullet: > First of all, it is perfectly practical, especially given the fact that you can find step-by-step instruction to do just about anything in…

My mom ran ubuntu from ~2009-2014, she never had to run sudo from a terminal. What are you imagining goes wrong in so many linux deployments that requires everyone to edit /etc files or run command line programs all the time? Just because enthusiasts do it (enthusiasts do a lot of crazy stuff to Windows too) doesn't mean it's common.

I'm responding to this claim and the idea that it's "practical" for the average end-user:

>> Try going to a mailing list and suggesting that editing text files in /etc isn't a practical end-user experience and see what response you get.

> First of all, it is perfectly practical, especially given the fact that you can find step-by-step instruction to do just about anything in a matter of seconds.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that there isn't a "best" operating system, there is only an "ideal" operating system for any given person's use-case and value hierarchy. If your mom likes Ubuntu, good on her. I suspect she's an outlier within the general populace.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#240

Post by WorldMaker »

gowld wrote: post #123
dleslie wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google proved the model for embracing, extending and controlling open source by way of Android and the shift to Google Play Services. Start open and let the walled garden grow within.

How does a not-open-source product control open-source? Anyone can try to build an open source alternative to GPS on whatever hardware they can obtain, using Android Open Source Project (AOSP). Without Google open source, they've have to replicate it's functionality from scratch. If AOSP never existed, Android would still be Android (GPL allows proprietary Android) and would still be as popular as it is. iOS was neve…

When was the last time a Google-free AOSP fork had a successful handset on the market? We've seen almost nothing but failures: Amazon Phone, Cyanogen, …

The market seems to have spoken that Android isn't Android without "Google Play Services" secret sauce, and that's entirely proprietary walled garden.

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