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Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

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Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#191

Post by ClumsyPilot »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #95
darkcha0s wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of an assumption is this. Most people need an operating system they are comfortable doing their daily work, not just a browser and a notepad. Jesus christ, not all non-devs work only in office.

> Most people need an operating system they are comfortable doing their daily work. True, and Windows is very entrenched partly due to Office and legacy software depending on it. Chromebooks and Mac OS seem to be adopted without to much hindrance from a UI perspective. i.e How much more populate would Chromebooks be if they ran the full desktop Office suite? > not all non-devs work only in office. Certainly not all b…

I disagree with this 'legacy software's moniker, all the most productive software falls into this category.

Look at the Autodesk Suite, Adobe Suite, Enterprise Architect, blender3D, Unity game engine, a traditional IDE like Jetbrains or VisualStudio.

They have waay more power than the their web-based or, worse yet, electron competitors.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#192

Post by bdcravens »

zymhan wrote: post #67
derefr wrote: post #42

I’m honestly surprised that Microsoft aren’t working with Linux vendors in an attempt to solve Linux problems by more deeply integrating Windows-styled solutions into Linux, such that the Linux client ecosystem becomes more dependent on the Windows infrastructure ecosystem. That’d be the natural Azure-focused equivalent to “embrace, extend, extinguish.” For example, Linux DNS resolution is an arcane mess of upstream…

> ...but, so far as I can tell, they’re not doing this. I wonder why not? Because maybe, just maybe, they're a tad bit less evil?

Gates has always operated at the world level. In business, he wanted nothing less than total domination. The older, kinder Gates has a philanthropic ideology that is no less bold - he's thinking big, at the global level.

Being separated from that, Microsoft is doing what they are supposed to do - be Microsoft-centered, and focus on profit. But they can be more objective, with the founder's emotions no longer driving the company's direction.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#193

Post by Jach »

dlivingston wrote: post #156
excursionist wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. People do you Linux Desktop because it is great. I do. > The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that. In what way is Android or Chromebook better than, say, Debian or Ubuntu on desktop? > Linux Desktop is exclusively d…

Your response is little more than, "no, you're wrong, and I'm right." I tend to agree with parent that the general Linux UI/UX experience (even the flagship Linux OS, Ubuntu) is subpar compared to commercial operating systems. You only make a serious argument in the last bullet: > First of all, it is perfectly practical, especially given the fact that you can find step-by-step instruction to do just about anything in…

My mom ran ubuntu from ~2009-2014, she never had to run sudo from a terminal.

What are you imagining goes wrong in so many linux deployments that requires everyone to edit /etc files or run command line programs all the time? Just because enthusiasts do it (enthusiasts do a lot of crazy stuff to Windows too) doesn't mean it's common.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#194

Post by disintegore »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #159
stiray wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have dumped windows completely after spending some time on windows 8 (fyi: system level developer, but... Well i did my share on aix, hpux, solaris, linux, vms too, but I did love windows... Before the age of manifests, putting com interfaces into kernel32.dll,...) What troubles me THE most on linux is interoperability of applications, there is literally nothing replacing microsoft "office" (not a product Office) s…

Yeah, that's the problem. Linux Desktop evangelists think they can slap a new coat of paint on this cobbled-together kludge of disparately developed software and that'll be "good enough for everyone". They don't seem to understand the way desktop software fits into workflows that aren't their own.

A "cobbled-together kludge of disparately developed software" is how I would describe the average Windows' user's workstation. You only need to boot it to be immediately hit by a barrage of dysfunction. I think you're simply comfortable in your own mess.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#195

Post by rb808 »

hamsapelea wrote: post #138
stiray wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have dumped windows completely after spending some time on windows 8 (fyi: system level developer, but... Well i did my share on aix, hpux, solaris, linux, vms too, but I did love windows... Before the age of manifests, putting com interfaces into kernel32.dll,...) What troubles me THE most on linux is interoperability of applications, there is literally nothing replacing microsoft "office" (not a product Office) s…

Hmm the average joe is already using google drive rather than office et al. Works on linux and mac better than the office stack works on windows.

At every company I've worked at gmail and google drive are blocked at the firewall. I dont know how any big company would allow their data to be stored or copied externally.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#196

Post by fhery »

Nullabillity wrote: post #87
Foobar8568 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. And funnily enough, I always feel that .Net core primary platform was Linux and not windows. Same for visual studio code, and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years, new sql server features won't appear first on the Linux version. And actually it's somewhat t…

> Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. NuGet constantly fails silently when trying to restore packages. Visual Studio is an editor built primarily around a folder tree, with no competent way to navigate that tree without constantly losing your place. It's also the only IDE that I have used where I just had to give up trying to find the application logs. > Because sql server is a fantastic pr…

Wow, you must've been trying hard to cherry pick those.

I'm actually curious about this one:

>SSMS is an unusable hog. There is just no nice way to put it.

I've been using both postgre and sql server for like 1.5 year and tooling difference between pgAdmin and SSMS is insane

SSMS is mature, reliable and makes my life easier meanwhile pgAdmin is just viable, but nothing more.

Generally SQL Server seems to be years ahead in compare to postgre when it comes to features/tooling.

I also used mysql via xamp and sql management in compare to all of those is world class

>NuGet constantly fails silently when trying to restore packages.

what?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#197

Post by gattilorenz »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #105
juliangoldsmith wrote: post #17

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

> Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. Microsoft has a history that makes skepticism warranted. Look up "Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish" Off the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Java_Virtual_Machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

It's mentioned in the beginning of the article...

Plus, I don't see how this contradicts the OP. Maybe EEE was the best way to make money then, but supporting Linux developers is the best way to make money now

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#198

Post by mikorym »

derefr wrote: post #42

I’m honestly surprised that Microsoft aren’t working with Linux vendors in an attempt to solve Linux problems by more deeply integrating Windows-styled solutions into Linux, such that the Linux client ecosystem becomes more dependent on the Windows infrastructure ecosystem. That’d be the natural Azure-focused equivalent to “embrace, extend, extinguish.” For example, Linux DNS resolution is an arcane mess of upstream…

> Linux DNS resolution

I'm confused, do you mean the (remote) computers that resolve the DNS or do you mean your local machine?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#199

Post by oneplane »

delusional wrote: post #171
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense, a publicly traded corporation is inherently an immoral psychopath. They are required to single-mindedly pursue shareholder profit.

The people who make up the corporation are people. They need to be motivated, and they no not mobilize immediately.

Depends on shareholders, doesn't it? Those are the people that 'make up' the corp. The rest are pawns that either fall in line or end up recognizing that the only way to win the game is to not play (and thus quit).

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#200

Post by Aperocky »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #159
stiray wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have dumped windows completely after spending some time on windows 8 (fyi: system level developer, but... Well i did my share on aix, hpux, solaris, linux, vms too, but I did love windows... Before the age of manifests, putting com interfaces into kernel32.dll,...) What troubles me THE most on linux is interoperability of applications, there is literally nothing replacing microsoft "office" (not a product Office) s…

Yeah, that's the problem. Linux Desktop evangelists think they can slap a new coat of paint on this cobbled-together kludge of disparately developed software and that'll be "good enough for everyone". They don't seem to understand the way desktop software fits into workflows that aren't their own.

tbf, those workflow probably can be replaced by a much better alternative. The only downside is people who wouldn’t learn a newer system of interaction with their computer. It’s like 737 Max8 except that mistakes and problems won’t cause lives to be lost.
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