Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

pedrocr.pt

161–170 of 421 posts

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#161
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be very surprised if this were true. My experience is that in actual offices, MS Office is king and it would be very hard to move most workflows away from it without exactly replicating it bug-for-bug.

To be honest i never worked in such a backwards office where people still use ms office

Your condescension makes it clear why you don't understand things.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#162
post #28

I'm not sure I follow what the author is getting at other than "We should hate MS and do our best to not work with them on anything!". First it was "MS breaks compatibility on purpose, screw those guys!". Now it's "sure, they're playing nice but they don't have a product in every market segment we want so they must have some nefarious master plan we haven't figure out yet!" Everytime I hear someone say "just look, th…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#163

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

AD will be gone in the 2030 timeframe. Kerberos can’t survive in untrusted networks, and products like Azure AD and Okta are far more profitable, especially since the license that pays for AD (ie windows, even for Linux clients), is required anyway!

AD is mostly used internally on corporate networks. Why would untrusted networks be relevant?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Office was available for Linux, some organizations could consider deploying Linux workstations with Office since that's what most users/employees need is basically a browser (100%/users) and the Office suite (50-90%/users). Office Online is severely gimped as noted in the article and is solely to counteract adoption of Google Office.

What kind of an assumption is this. Most people need an operating system they are comfortable doing their daily work, not just a browser and a notepad. Jesus christ, not all non-devs work only in office.

Yeah, it's a common sentiment by people who are completely out of touch with how people work outside of dev.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has historically been the single greatest enemy of Linux and Open Source in general. The only reason they now changed face and hopped on the Linux train is that they realized they lost or cannot possibly win the battle when it comes to servers, embedded devices, a large section of developers, mobile, etc. > I can tell you unequivocally the thing holding back the average enterprise from moving their entire b…

People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. Constantly looking for others to blame (Microsoft, DRM, Google, Valve, Apple, etc) doesn't change that fact. The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that. Linux Desktop is exclusively designed for Linux developers, it is…

> Personally I don't think it can be fixed not because the software is beyond saving, but the community surrounding it doesn't actually want it to be an experience for regular non-technical people. Try going to a mailing list and suggesting that editing text files in /etc isn't a practical end-user experience and see what response you get.

Thank you. This is the truth, and your attitude on the issue will tell you which dog you have in the fight;

The non-technical among us, the 80-90% if you will, are not going to use a desktop Linux distribution the way they are currently setup. A home user is not going to use Google to fix a problem. They're not going to call their technically-inclined family member. They're not going to edit text files nor understand the minutiae of their hardware (and it WILL happen, eventually, 100% guaranteed). They are either going to throw "that piece of shit away" or they're going to call their buddy Steve who can put Windows on it.

Unfortunately, the community is still "the community," and much like those kids who wouldn't get out of their parents' basements, they're now in their 50s, crusty and pedantic as hell, sitting in their own ivory tower, incidentally not much different than the one they rebelled against in the 90s. Anyway... blah, blah, blah.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be convinced when MS and Wine project has an agreement so the Wine devs can access the Windows source code. This is exactly what I'm saying is absurd. Microsoft isn't EEE-ing by not giving Wine devs access to Windows source. There is a difference between not helping and actively sabotaging. Conflating the two is an unfair attack.

The part about Wine is not related, it was about what would convince me that Microsoft "loves" Linux or at least is not intimidated by it. The WSL seems to me as the first part of the EEE and the competition would be fair if Linux could have it's own project Wine supported by Microsoft, as it is now it feels as an exploit, MS can do WSL but Linux and Mac have to struggle with Wine and the FUD around it.

> Linux and Mac have to struggle with Wine and the FUD around it.

What FUD? I don't think I've ever seen someone spread FUD about Wine. Are you referring to the website that lists how well games/apps work with it?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. What are some of these tools besides VSCode, and what makes them 'the best'? > Because sql server is a fantastic product that has basically no real equivalent on the market. What makes SQL Server so much better than, say, PostgreSQL or MariaDB? > And funnily enough, I always feel that .Net core primary platform was Linux and not windows. Why?

> What makes SQL Server so much better than, say, PostgreSQL or MariaDB? Tooling and speed. I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server. If you watch the CMU DB Group's lectures on YouTube, they mention that the commercial RDBMSs have put a lot more time+research into query optimization than the open source ones (and apparently SQL Server has the best optimizer…

> Tooling and speed.

That's too vague to be of any use. What tooling? What benchmarks?

> I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server.

The fact that you like SSMS doesn't really say anything about tooling for PostgreSQL. I find the quality of PostgreSQL tooling great.

There is certainly plenty of reason to believe PostgreSQL is superior to MS SQL [1]. I don't agree with everything in the referenced article, but your claim of MS SQL being far superior is, so far, completely unsubstantiated.

[1] https://www.pg-versus-ms.com/

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#168
post #29

Why would any Linux shop use SQL Server anyways? Why would they use .NET Core? The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people, not Linux people. My general rule is to never use a technology where your primary platform is a second class citizen. It just makes things a pain: not only could support be dropped in the future because there's no profit in it, its also harder to find answers to problems on the inte…

> The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people, not Linux people.

Miguel de Icaza would probably have an issue with that statement.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has historically been the single greatest enemy of Linux and Open Source in general. The only reason they now changed face and hopped on the Linux train is that they realized they lost or cannot possibly win the battle when it comes to servers, embedded devices, a large section of developers, mobile, etc. > I can tell you unequivocally the thing holding back the average enterprise from moving their entire b…

People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. Constantly looking for others to blame (Microsoft, DRM, Google, Valve, Apple, etc) doesn't change that fact. The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that. Linux Desktop is exclusively designed for Linux developers, it is…

I agree with everything you said, but most especially this:

> Personally I don't think it can be fixed not because the software is beyond saving, but the community surrounding it doesn't actually want it to be an experience for regular non-technical people

The community behind Linux Desktop is, by far, the biggest reason it is as unpopular as it is.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#170
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be very surprised if this were true. My experience is that in actual offices, MS Office is king and it would be very hard to move most workflows away from it without exactly replicating it bug-for-bug.

Bug-for-bug? Nah. Just come up with something even remotely as productivity-enhancing as Excel is and you might have a shot. Fact is, people who think this already exists underestimate that powerhouse of productivity. It is possibly the most used programming environment on earth.

Even Excel isn't as productivity enhancing as Excel is. Microsoft has been trying to get people into .net macros for years but a lot of places are still using VBA.
Post reply on HN