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Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

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Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#51

Post by eternalny1 »

stevbov wrote: post #29

Why would any Linux shop use SQL Server anyways? Why would they use .NET Core? The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people, not Linux people. My general rule is to never use a technology where your primary platform is a second class citizen. It just makes things a pain: not only could support be dropped in the future because there's no profit in it, its also harder to find answers to problems on the inte…

Our Angular web app runs .Net Core on Linux.

.Net Core is fantastic, C# is a great language, I don't see any downsides with our stack.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#52

Post by simion314 »

will4274 wrote: post #26

This blog appears to argue that by bringing some but not all of it's products to Linux, Microsoft is engaging in Embrace, Extend, Extinguish (EEE). That's a tough sell. If you apply the same standard, virtually ever large company that has ever contributed to Linux is EEE-ing Linux because they released some product that doesn't run on vanilla Linux. The bad action in EEE is extending APIs in incompatible ways and the…

I think the author refers at the fact you release just a bit of functionality for Linux but if you want the full stack you have to use Windows. Like you make .Net for Linux but only some parts, release other tools but not the admin part etc.

I would be convinced when MS and Wine project has an agreement so the Wine devs can access the Windows source code.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#53

Post by zwieback »

TBH, Linux as a desktop productivity environment is a small enough market that I wouldn't expect MS to make a big investment there. It's either iOS, Android, Mac or Windows for the average user so MS is trying to stay relevant in those areas by focusing on the server side and Windows client side.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#54

Post by gmaster1440 »

Personally strikes me very much as an article making valid points but generally in bad faith. Microsoft can both begin to change and embrace Linux gradually as they've been doing recently and at the same time have an unsavory past with the ecosystem. If anything, they're willingness to change, however small, should be interpreted generally as a positive shift.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#55

Post by hapless »

juliangoldsmith wrote: post #17

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

You can’t really auth Linux clients against AD, because you will kill the AD servers.

AD and ADAM are shockingly low performance compared to Sun/Netscape LDAP. They depend on extensive client side caching to work at all.

If you want to tie Unix clients to AD, the first step is to mirror your AD content in a more competent LDAP cluster

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#56

Post by Spooky23 »

juliangoldsmith wrote: post #17

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

AD will be gone in the 2030 timeframe.

Kerberos can’t survive in untrusted networks, and products like Azure AD and Okta are far more profitable, especially since the license that pays for AD (ie windows, even for Linux clients), is required anyway!

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#57

Post by will4274 »

simion314 wrote: post #52
will4274 wrote: post #26

This blog appears to argue that by bringing some but not all of it's products to Linux, Microsoft is engaging in Embrace, Extend, Extinguish (EEE). That's a tough sell. If you apply the same standard, virtually ever large company that has ever contributed to Linux is EEE-ing Linux because they released some product that doesn't run on vanilla Linux. The bad action in EEE is extending APIs in incompatible ways and the…

I think the author refers at the fact you release just a bit of functionality for Linux but if you want the full stack you have to use Windows. Like you make .Net for Linux but only some parts, release other tools but not the admin part etc. I would be convinced when MS and Wine project has an agreement so the Wine devs can access the Windows source code.

> I would be convinced when MS and Wine project has an agreement so the Wine devs can access the Windows source code.

This is exactly what I'm saying is absurd. Microsoft isn't EEE-ing by not giving Wine devs access to Windows source. There is a difference between not helping and actively sabotaging. Conflating the two is an unfair attack.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#58

Post by ripley12 »

lghh wrote: post #35
stevbov wrote: post #29

Why would any Linux shop use SQL Server anyways? Why would they use .NET Core? The only people I know pushing .NET Core are .NET people, not Linux people. My general rule is to never use a technology where your primary platform is a second class citizen. It just makes things a pain: not only could support be dropped in the future because there's no profit in it, its also harder to find answers to problems on the inte…

I'm a Linux person who likes .NET Core. I like C# quite a bit, and I don't think Linux is a 2nd class citizen for .NET Core.

It is still a 2nd class citizen, IMO – but I think that's improving rapidly. Some examples:

-IDE support from MS is markedly better on Windows (real Visual Studio) and Mac (VS for Mac). VS Code+Omnisharp is still pretty rough around the edges for C#.

-Many of the older .NET class libraries were just not designed with *nix in mind. System.IO still doesn't support symlinks https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/26310

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#60

Post by mastax »

mtgx wrote: post #31
juliangoldsmith wrote: post #17

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

Yes, especially when they can extort patent fees with their patent protection racket from anyone that builds a Linux or Android device. Microsoft continues to make billions of dollars a year in royalties by accusing device makers of patent infringement.

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-joins-open-...
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