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The Editable PDF Initiative

editablepdf.org

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131–140 of 162 posts

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#131

Post by blunte »

pdpi wrote: post #113

PDF is a publishing, rather than an editing format. It belongs in the same bucket as .mp3 and .jpg, rather than the .doc and .psd bucket. This is not about how easy or how hard it is to modify a pdf, it's about the intended purpose. The fact that it's meant for publishing means we get to optimise it as such, both in terms of simplicity of the format itself, and in terms of the tools that interact with it. This makes…

Consistency can be solved with hashing and cryptographic signatures.

The user story here is that PDFs get sent around as forms to be filled out, and that poses a problem for non Mac users or users without sufficient technical skill.

And since you reference mp3 and jpg, you surely know that both formats can be modified in ways that many people will not recognize as modifications. It just pushes the skill level up a bit. But there's always a technically capable person available for hire to modify one of the "permanent" formats you mention.

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#132

Post by blunte »

alpaca128 wrote: post #93
vbezhenar wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sounds like security through obscurity.

This isn't about security, it's about making sure that a text document is formatted exactly the same on all devices, whether it's a PC, a phone or a printer. The PDF file is reliable in that aspect while other widely used document formats like .doc and .docx are basically a gamble, even if you open the document on the same machine with the same software. The same with presentations: You just need to open the file in…

By your argument, PDF fails. I can provide examples of PDFs that look different on different devices.

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#133

Post by pge »

darau1 wrote: post #126
hvidgaard wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you print a word document to PDF the actual text, placement, and fonts are all embedded in the pdf. It may have been designed for publishing, but it's pretty simple to edit text in it.

Yes, and following this logic, anything can be called editable. A binary file is 'editable' with enough work. The point is that PDF is the format used to disseminate private information to multiple and disparate parties with the confidence that will all receive the same informtion, and cannot (reasonably) change that document. That's why it's used in marketing for things like lookbooks and elsewhere for things like c…

In the case of PDFs, though, it is almost trivial to edit. Uncompress the PDF, and then search in a text editor for the sentence you want to change and edit it. Uncompressing takes one command, and after that it is almost as easy as editing a word doc (in your favorite editor, search and replace the text you want to change)

It's a little more complicated but not difficult to edit charts.

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#134

Post by DannyB2 »

pdpi wrote: post #113

PDF is a publishing, rather than an editing format. It belongs in the same bucket as .mp3 and .jpg, rather than the .doc and .psd bucket. This is not about how easy or how hard it is to modify a pdf, it's about the intended purpose. The fact that it's meant for publishing means we get to optimise it as such, both in terms of simplicity of the format itself, and in terms of the tools that interact with it. This makes…

I think of PDF like PostScript but not Turing complete.

I think of PostScript as an "ink on paper" format.

While you can take apart the PDF / PS format, dictionaries, etc. It's not a high level representation format, like a word processor. It's a way of specifying how to draw vector shapes onto "paper".

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#135

Post by darau1 »

pge wrote: post #133
darau1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and following this logic, anything can be called editable. A binary file is 'editable' with enough work. The point is that PDF is the format used to disseminate private information to multiple and disparate parties with the confidence that will all receive the same informtion, and cannot (reasonably) change that document. That's why it's used in marketing for things like lookbooks and elsewhere for things like c…

In the case of PDFs, though, it is almost trivial to edit. Uncompress the PDF, and then search in a text editor for the sentence you want to change and edit it. Uncompressing takes one command, and after that it is almost as easy as editing a word doc (in your favorite editor, search and replace the text you want to change) It's a little more complicated but not difficult to edit charts.

Trivial for you, impossible for the likes of marketing execs, lawyers, etc. As far as most laymen are concerned PDF's are completely unchangeable, and even those that know you can edit it, don't know how to do it themselves and tend to ask someone else. That's in my experience anyway.

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#136

Post by jolmg »

e1ven wrote: post #58
jolmg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it desireable for it to not be machine readable? What could possibly be the advantage in that?

Because I don't want anything to try to reflow the text, or adjust the kerning, or modify to use system fonts. There are great systems for those already. When I want a PDF, it's because I want a format that I know is always going to look the same. A PDF is a great archive format. It's perfect for a scan of a document, or a printout. I never want my viewer to add anything to it, I never want it to detect anything, I n…

One thing doesn't imply the other. The format could be machine readable and still be pixel-perfect consistent. It could also allow reflowing, adjusting the kerning, or use system fonts even if it's machine unreadable.

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#137

Post by jjohansson »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #122
kccqzy wrote: post #36

Meh. Not being easily editable is a feature, not a bug. Sometimes you want to send out a finalized document and want to make 99% of the users unable to edit them. That's what PDFs are for. Imagine lawyers needing to send out a finalized contract. Or a graphic designer sending out the finalized design. Or an electronic book that has gone through the work of the author, the editor, and the publisher and needs no more c…

Anyone else remember all the times a government released a censored document only to have someone discover that they could just remove the black bar layer and see the original text with hardly any difficulty at all?

This is not because PDFs can’t be redacted, but was instead caused by crappy redaction software.

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#138

Post by jjohansson »

Nemo_bis wrote: post #127
alpaca128 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, presentations. It's pretty calming to know that every slide will look as intended, without anything misplaced or missing.

Unlikely to be true unless you use PDF/A.

Even with PDF/A, rendering fidelity is greatly impacted by the viewing software. Especially if that viewer is based on open source, where only a fraction of the PDF spec is implemented.

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#139

Post by jjohansson »

klodolph wrote: post #30
kick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just archive.org or CTRL-S?

- archive.org - lots of stuff was never archived, or is not available due to /robots.txt - ctrl-S - not self-contained, compatibility depends on which browser you use (Safari at least gets it right and puts it in a single file, but then other browsers can't open it. Firefox usually saves it correctly and portably, but now you have multiple files, and you can't rename them because they have references to each other, w…

Didn’t archive.org at some point say they would ignore robots.txt? I wish they would.

Re: The Editable PDF Initiative

#140

Post by enriquto »

majkinetor wrote: post #65
Terretta wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that reflows when you change text size, font family, or page orientation.

You can also reflow with Foxit PDF Reader FYI (on all platforms)

it does not seem to be available for openbsd. Do you have a link? (or at least to the source code)
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