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Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

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Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#281
post #47

The funny thing is that I am sure most of the people who work at slack know it's terrible, but no one asks them. There is a small cohort of product managers who probably have a plausible-sounding reason to do it, and they need to do something to justify their jobs, so they alienate everybody else because no one stops them. I am, to put it lightly, familiar with this in other companies.

I bet a large percentage of Slack people _tried super hard_ to stop that cohort of PMs. However, you can only fight upwards so much before you just check out completely, cash the checks, and halfheartedly build whatever nonsense they're forcing through.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Atlassians approach with Jira - "it supports markdown, except when it doesn't!"

All I want is consistent syntax for links, italics, and bulleted lists, bonus points for numbered lists, bold, and code blocks. I don't want to have to click stuff when typing, and I don't want to remember keyboard shortcuts with subtle differences between different services. Markdown is good enough, yet for some reason, each platform finds it necessary to do something slightly differently. I really don't care about…

That plus a nice table syntax. So many times I need to put a table in a jira comment or chat, but not often enough to remember how for the particular context.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#284
post #38

I'm going to take the opposite of this argument, and for bonafides, I run the product team for a 1000+ person company. I'm going to assume that this thing was tested out the wazoo, both qualitatively and behind enough feature-flags and buckets to keep Optimizely in business for a year. So I have no doubt that this wasn't just a hunch on their part, but something that they meticulously tracked. If I'm wrong, definitel…

As someone who runs the product team for a 1000+ person company, the concept of intransigent minorities should be of interest to you. [1]

The gist of it is that an intransigent minority can often dictate the choices of a flexible majority. It is unwise to make decisions based solely on majority rule, as stubborn minorities can affect complex systems in ways that you do not expect. The phenomenon can be verified in a variety of situations across history.

To put this into context for Slack, I believe technical users have been particularly important for the app. Tech users were early adopters for Slack - I'm sure a lot of corporate accounts started out with engineering teams. Tech users wrote the chat bots and integrations that Slack is known for. They got people to use Slack, and they can get people to stop using it.

Let's say you're changing the way a certain feature in your application works. The majority of users are happy or indifferent about the change (but weren't particularly bothered by the old behaviour). A minority of users not only reject the change, but are vocal in how much they hate it. They will not tolerate the new behaviour, and will try to get other users to abandon your product unless you resolve the situation. What do you do? You can ignore them for now, but can you predict the long term effects of turning your back to the intransigent minority?

1. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#285
post #111

This reminds me of Atlassian's god-awful WYSIWYG editor. In both cases, I get that some users can't or don't like to use a machine grammar/markup, however simple. For some people markup is bad UX. Give them a WYSIWYG; that's fine. But don't remove the markup editor if your WYSIWYG editor is anything but a perfect one-two-one replacement for markup (and I have never seen one that satisfies that). IIRC there was a time…

Same here. I had to resort to making all edits in my browser's devtools instead. If a page in our Confluence wiki looks decent, there's a good chance it's because I hand-edited the underlying HTML. (There's also a good chance it's old, because I've largely given up on using Confluence for new articles. I just email distro lists like it's 2001)

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#286
post #114

The exact same happened with the draft feature. The importance of habit forming UI is very well documented, going back at least as far as Jef Raskin's The Humane Interface and the draft feature completely breaks it -- if you as much as accidentally leave a character in there, you can't find the channel/DM at its normal place. Despite repeated calls to make it optional, nothing. Threads are also broken, has always bee…

[deleted]

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#288
Slack’s old formatting syntax was Markdown-like but not exactly Markdown, just similar. In case anyone from Slack is paying attention to their technical users here, this is a great opportunity to move to CommonMark formatting for technical users and wysiwyg for non-technical users: just make this optional and switch the format syntax for the non-wysiwyg mode to CommonMark. I can understand that changing the formatting on people previously would have been disruptive, but that is no longer a viable excuse: you have already disrupted the lives of programmers far worse than changing to CommonMark would have done and switching markup formats won’t affect people who stay in wysiwyg mode at all. If you reintroduce Markdown mode now using CommonMark, programmers will just be happy that they can use Slack effectively again and as a bonus, you’ll match GitHub and everywhere else programmers hang out.

Regarding Slack’s attitude about technical users whose life this disrupts, I can see that the calculus may appear to favor the non-technical users: there are probably far more users who have no idea what Markdown is and never need to share code snippets on Slack and who are happy with the new wysiwyg editor since it’s closer to what they get from MS Word and Gmail. However, technical users have massively outsized influence over the choices of technology at most companies. The IT dept is full of technical users who share code fragments all the time. Don’t you think they’ll be keeping an eye out for new chat platforms after this change? Tech startups are (almost by definition) mostly technical users. Do you think any new tech startups will willingly use Slack after this change? Some of those would have been paying customers and a few of them would have become huge paying customers. Now they won’t. I know I’m actively looking for alternatives now and I have controlling influence over what gets used in several paying and non-paying Slack instances.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#289
post #275
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad sign. If the rank and file are afraid to give honest internal feedback, they have a management problem. At least for me, that's a time-to-leave signal.

And this ladies and gentlemen is the over reaction of the year!

Not at all. Why stay at a place that doesn't value your ability to think? Or, worse, doesn't value the thoughts of anybody below a certain rank?

Not only is that a miserable experience, but I think it's also a recipe for a product that only gets worse.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#290

This is funny because I work across the street of Slack’s office in Vancouver, Canada and two Slack engineers who I frequently chat with during our daily commute already told me they —and a handful of other employees— hate the WYSIWYG input box too, but were afraid to express their feelings because their role is irrelevant compared to the people who made the decision to ship it.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how to create two adjacent but separate code blocks. ``` one ``` ``` two ``` I've tried and tried.

Typing option-return between the two blocks works for me.
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