Apple has locked me out of my developer account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#411

Post by supernova87a » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

bogwog wrote: post #402

supernova87a wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's illegal or calls for another government regulation. When did being able to access / sell to a private marketplace become an entitlement of public accommodation? If the Supreme Court rules in favor of this then by all means go ahead and assert this. I personally don't believe the iPhone App Store (or any other app store) yet rises to the level of a forum of open pu…

> You are perfectly free to develop apps and sell them elsewhere. Yeah, you just lose access to a giant chunk of the market and severely limit your growth potential. The entire industry with its millions of jobs and immeasurable value to society is two stores owned by two companies. That needs to be regulated.

Well, your conclusion that "this needs to be regulated" is highly debatable as a matter of public policy. Clearly I disagree. "Inhibited growth potential", especially in the pursuit of developing apps for iPhone, certainly doesn't fall on the side of being a fundamental right that people are being deprived of. I personally exercise a bit more restraint in saying that things call for government intervention.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#412

Post by pdonis » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:24 AM UTC

Reelin wrote: post #385

pdonis wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Out compete Apple? You cant be serious. And if that's the answer, then devs who don't like how Apple manages their ecosystem should simply go find some other kind of coding to do.

Do you actually think it's an acceptable state of affairs for a company to be able to unilaterally put a non-competing and unrelated company out of business on a whim? Apple isn't a traditional distribution channel. If FedEx bans me, I can switch to UPS (or USPS, or ...); if Apple bans me, for all practical purposes I can't compete in the mobile space in the US anymore.

> Do you actually think it's an acceptable state of affairs for a company to be able to unilaterally put a non-competing and unrelated company out of business on a whim?

What "non-competing and unrelated company" are we talking about?

If a third-party dev company is depending on Apple's ecosystem for their business, they're not "unrelated". They've made a business choice that has consequences: one of them is that their business is now at the mercy of Apple's app review process. But they knew that going in and chose to take the risk anyway. Not all choices end up well.

> if Apple bans me, for all practical purposes I can't compete in the mobile space in the US anymore.

That's because you're just one person. Samsung, LG, and other phone manufacturers compete with Apple in the mobile space just fine.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#413

Post by pdonis » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:31 AM UTC

Reelin wrote: post #405

sjwright wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a "whim" for Apple to act in accordance with their stated policy?

It might or might not be, but that misses my point. The issue isn't (necessarily) that Apple banned a particular account for a particular reason. The issue is that Apple (or Google) banning an account could easily render a given company (in an unrelated market segment) non-competitive overnight. That company would effectively have no recourse, and there is no alternative provider for them to switch to. I do not think…

> A reasonable analogy (in the US) would be an ISP banning a particular website.

This analogy is flawed. Apple cannot "ban" people from the Internet. It can only choose to prohibit certain app developers from using its app store. But app developers can still reach customers in other ways. Choosing to base your business on Apple allowing you to use its app store is a business decision that has known risks up front. If you choose to do it, the risk is on you.

An ISP ban of a website means that website is literally off the Internet as far as all of that ISP's users are concerned. The website is not trying to use something the ISP owns; the ISP does not own the Internet (whereas Apple does own its app store). The website has no business relationship with the ISP the way app devs do with Apple. Also, the ISP's monopoly of its customer's Internet access is not a product of market forces the way Apple's position in the mobile app space is; the ISPs have monopolies granted by governments.

A better analogy to Apple would be a website's hosting company deciding not to host them any more based on the content of the website. The business running the site, by choosing to have a third party hosting company (instead of just buying their own servers and their own direct connection to the Internet), has taken a business risk; if the risk materializes, they have to make a business decision to either switch to an alternate method of hosting or shut down. But they knew that risk up front when they chose to do business with that hosting company.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#414

Post by bsder » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:34 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #406

bsder wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In that case are all of the console makers “monopolies” since they have to approve both digital and physical media distributed on their platform? Personally, I would say that they are monopolies. And people are starting to think about them that way because so many games now have an "always online" component. The problem is that even if I own a game disk, that game that I paid money for is suddenly worthless when So…

The laws weren't "changed" to make those monopolies. They were monopolies by the original definition of the law. And whether you "personally" think they are monopolies. They are in no sense of the word "monopolies" by any definition that has been used by the US or EU.

> The laws weren't "changed" to make those monopolies. They were monopolies by the original definition of the law.

This is not correct. Nothing like the Sherman Act existed prior to it even though there were "anti-competition" rules from common law. The Sherman Act was a product of its times and changed the laws and the way of thinking about monopolies.

Standard Oil was never a "monopoly" according to your definition, and yet was declared to be so by the US Supreme Court in 1911.

Your assertions about "monopoly law" are shallower and more dogmatic than its actual application in the real world.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#415

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #414

scarface74 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laws weren't "changed" to make those monopolies. They were monopolies by the original definition of the law. And whether you "personally" think they are monopolies. They are in no sense of the word "monopolies" by any definition that has been used by the US or EU.

> The laws weren't "changed" to make those monopolies. They were monopolies by the original definition of the law. This is not correct. Nothing like the Sherman Act existed prior to it even though there were "anti-competition" rules from common law. The Sherman Act was a product of its times and changed the laws and the way of thinking about monopolies. Standard Oil was never a "monopoly" according to your definition…

If that’s the case, that my assertions are shallower than the real world application, where is the real world application of any definition of “monopoly” that the EU or the US has applied to platforms that don’t even have 50% market share?

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#416

Post by EGreg » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:48 AM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #120

mortenjorck wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My bigger issue here is the complete lack of transparency or visibility into the process. This is indeed the core of the problem. If Apple provided a clear citation, e.g. “the following protected information was shared under your name at this URL on this date, which violates section xyz of your developer agreement,” it would still be unfortunate, but it would be miles ahead of Apple’s maddening “for more informatio…

This is impossible at scale and a waste of a companies' time. Apple doesn't care if your account is reinstated. Odds are (just like the author here) you know exactly why your account is suspended. If you honestly don't, then you didn't do your due diligence in signing up. And, even if they cited whatever part of whatever agreement, it would just be onto the next excuse. It's a bottomless pit of arguing that solves no…

Lots of apps are above the rules. Facebook was secretly recording you with the camera! Is their app going to be removed from the store until fixed? Perhaps Apple would ban them for such sneaky tactics? Ha ha ha. You have more chance of USA getting sanctions for invading Iraq.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#417

Post by jmull » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:55 AM UTC

bogwog wrote: post #95

ouid wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these guidelines are pretty good evidence in and of themselves why Apple should not be in charge of this marketplace.

These giant walled gardens should seriously be regulated. One company should not have complete control over an entire industry like this.

Apple doesn't have control over any industry, does it?

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#418

Post by Steko » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:58 AM UTC

izacus wrote: post #315

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invalid analogy, since it's Apple's house, not his. Nobody forced him to write software for Apple's platform and nobody forced him to agree to the developer agreement Apple requires. He did it of his own free will.

Except that this is not a single persons house, but a mega corporation with monetary power of states. It's not "a person throwing you out of his house", it's "your governor forcing you to leave your state because you dared critcize him". Power makes a difference.

No it's more like taking a dump in the middle of wal-mart and then being shocked when asked to leave.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#419

Post by smabie » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

Answerawake wrote: post #70

liquidise wrote: post #38

Apple's relationship with developers has been a strange one for some time. It shows up in all kinds of ways, from their app development ecosystem to decisions on their hardware. I used to think the swap to a Unix-based OS was a fundamental shift to move in the developer direction. During the days of XServe i think that might have been true. These days though it more like the development community is some noisy group…

What is the alternative to Apple? I don't see Linux being solid in a few years time (or ever really). I say this after trying Linux again every year in the hopes that this is the year it is solid. My anecdotal experience for this year is that the latest Ubuntu release had a problem where after performing a clean install and rebooting, the login screen will not allow me to enter the desktop. Turns out the desktop was…

Maybe you should stop thinking Ubuntu is Linux and actually try different window managers. I’m of the opinion that Ubuntu sucks, but that doesn’t really impeach the stability of Linux.

Though, if you want to get into it, Linux does actually suck. Really the only thing good about it is the software/hardware compatibility and the performance. OpenBSD is such a nicer system, it’s not even funny. Unfortunately, most users won’t find it practical as a non-server OS.

Re: Apple has locked me out of my developer account

#420

Post by smabie » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:09 AM UTC

IAmEveryone wrote: post #299

helpPeople wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have refused as well. My users and I lose by buying Apple products. I weep that Apple has entrenched themselves into the tech ecosystem. They take advantage of the least educated users fear and outright lie about security and product quality. Is there anything we can do?

> They take advantage of the least educated users If you actually want to convince people, it might help not to start from the assumption of them being stupid. Walk around at a physics conference, Google office, Harvard or MIT campus, and you'll see more MacBooks than any other brand. The notion of these users universally being clueless defies logic.

To be fair, all the examples you mentioned (except Google maybe) aren’t exactly bastions or people who care about software quality. I used to work as a bioinformatician (whatever that means) at Harvard Med and the people there weren’t exactly that interested in the quality of their OS. Sure they could use ssh or whatever and code up some god awful C++ or Python, but technology wasn’t exactly a topic they were passionate about.