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Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

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Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#121

Post by catalogia »

exogeny wrote: post #41
breeny592 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smells of bad UX/design process - some senior "wants" this particular solution, despite their users showing direct feedback that it doesn't work for their needs.

I'd push back on your last point; there's a zero-sum feedback process here that is invisible. You're seeing the negative feedback from a vocal set of minority power users; the positive feedback from people isn't going to be known or seen in anything other than usage metrics. You say "users": how many, what percentage, what cohort..you get the idea.

With the state of statistics literacy in this industry, "usage metrics" often mean whatever the person citing them want, with no malice or deception intended. Accidental, inadvertent p-hacking is shockingly common.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#122

Post by jon889 »

StavrosK wrote: post #39

At the risk of sounding like a shill, I'd like to shill Zulip. We started using it instead of Slack, and it has been amazing . It's fast, everything is designed to help you get to conversations quickly, keyboard accessibility is second to none and the streams is a much better default than rooms. I can't recommend it enough, it's well worth the money even though they have a nice free tier and are OSS so you can self-h…

Zulip looks great, but it also looks like the sort of thing I'd have trouble convincing everyone to switch over to because even though it might be more useful in the long term, in the short term its a bit more complicated (even though we're on the free slack, so we're looking to move elsewhere)

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#123

Post by rmsaksida »

jakebasile wrote: post #19

Reading their non-replies on Twitter feels like I'm reading something specifically designed to piss me off. Smarmy apologies, low empathy, cocksure of how correct their vision of a chat service should be. This one in particular[1]: > The goal is for workflows to evolve, but we realize change can be a bit of a pain. "Stupid peasant, we are only here to help you. Once you see the glorious vision we have you will thank…

That style of communication where a corporate entity pretends to be friendly and concerned even as they're downright shutting you down is extremely annoying. It comes across as dishonest and condescending. I wish this type of PR would go away.

If someone who's reading this works in social media, here's what would have been less annoying:

- Saying "it's not possible right now, but you have a point and we'll reevaluate this" (even if it's a lie)

- Saying nothing

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#124

Post by vorpalhex »

exogeny wrote: post #41
breeny592 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smells of bad UX/design process - some senior "wants" this particular solution, despite their users showing direct feedback that it doesn't work for their needs.

I'd push back on your last point; there's a zero-sum feedback process here that is invisible. You're seeing the negative feedback from a vocal set of minority power users; the positive feedback from people isn't going to be known or seen in anything other than usage metrics. You say "users": how many, what percentage, what cohort..you get the idea.

My concern is that they'll count any interaction with this new forced editor as a "win" and pretend it's an A/B test when in reality it's a lark.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#125

Post by FridgeSeal »

james_s_tayler wrote: post #115
guessmyname wrote: post #46

This is funny because I work across the street of Slack’s office in Vancouver, Canada and two Slack engineers who I frequently chat with during our daily commute already told me they —and a handful of other employees— hate the WYSIWYG input box too, but were afraid to express their feelings because their role is irrelevant compared to the people who made the decision to ship it.

Ahhh the HIPPO strikes again.

What’s that stand for? I’m guessing something along the lines of:

High Importance Person Pushing Own (desires??)?

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#127

Post by nothrabannosir »

jakebasile wrote: post #19

Reading their non-replies on Twitter feels like I'm reading something specifically designed to piss me off. Smarmy apologies, low empathy, cocksure of how correct their vision of a chat service should be. This one in particular[1]: > The goal is for workflows to evolve, but we realize change can be a bit of a pain. "Stupid peasant, we are only here to help you. Once you see the glorious vision we have you will thank…

This new hive mind of corporations empathising with the poor common man needs to stop. It is outrageously frustrating, condescending and patronising. Every CS rep is trained to say “I understand” more often than they breathe. Corporate blog posts wax poetic about their understanding of the struggle of modern life in the first world. How sorry they are to be doing exactly the opposite of what somebody would do, who actually empathised.

I will be the first to admit to a temper, but honestly if I hear one more CS drone tell me how much they understand, I swear to god I will reach through that phone and quiz them on it. Do you really? Explain it to me. In detail. So help you God if you forget anything.

Ugh.

You know, say what you will about the mob; at least they don’t treat you like you’re three years old.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#128

Post by snowe2010 »

StavrosK wrote: post #39

At the risk of sounding like a shill, I'd like to shill Zulip. We started using it instead of Slack, and it has been amazing . It's fast, everything is designed to help you get to conversations quickly, keyboard accessibility is second to none and the streams is a much better default than rooms. I can't recommend it enough, it's well worth the money even though they have a nice free tier and are OSS so you can self-h…

I'll just go ahead and admit to shilling. Zulip is amazing and I tried to get my company to switch to it. The only thing that stopped us from switching is well, the fact that people have to switch. They have to learn another tool, and Zulip sadly is not too friendly when you first start using it, though it's amazing for power users.

I literally believe it's the future of enterprise chat. There's no better tool for getting actual work done.

edit: I guess I should clarify about the shilling part. I contributed a single feature to zulip, once. So I guess I'm not really a shill, but I love the product.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#129

Post by userbinator »

exogeny wrote: post #41
breeny592 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smells of bad UX/design process - some senior "wants" this particular solution, despite their users showing direct feedback that it doesn't work for their needs.

I'd push back on your last point; there's a zero-sum feedback process here that is invisible. You're seeing the negative feedback from a vocal set of minority power users; the positive feedback from people isn't going to be known or seen in anything other than usage metrics. You say "users": how many, what percentage, what cohort..you get the idea.

Some people don't care, but the ones who do care and don't like the change, tend to really not like it.

Personally, I think the importance of not upsetting the established userbase far outweighs the probability of maybe growing that userbase a little.

Re: Slack’s new WYSIWYG input box is terrible

#130

Post by axolttl88 »

ajkjk wrote: post #47

The funny thing is that I am sure most of the people who work at slack know it's terrible, but no one asks them. There is a small cohort of product managers who probably have a plausible-sounding reason to do it, and they need to do something to justify their jobs, so they alienate everybody else because no one stops them. I am, to put it lightly, familiar with this in other companies.

my experience with Slack technical folk (on some tricky auth bugs and other issues we've hit over the years) has been excellent. They're fast, knowledgeable, never pass the buck, and communicative. If it's the PMs doing this, they're letting down an otherwise great team.
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