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In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

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Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#21

Post by tallanvor »

cromulent wrote: post #16

Norway is not a socialist country. Social democracy != socialism.

It's all in how you define a term, but traditionally Norway is a very socialist country - The major businesses were owned by the state, and while that has changed, the government does still hold large stakes in telecom, oil, and transportation companies. Private businesses also generally have a much flatter hierarchy than you find in the US, and income distribution is much more equally. And, of course, the member parties of the ruling coalition consider themselves to be socialist parties.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#22

Post by cromulent »

tallanvor wrote: post #21
cromulent wrote: post #16

Norway is not a socialist country. Social democracy != socialism.

It's all in how you define a term, but traditionally Norway is a very socialist country - The major businesses were owned by the state, and while that has changed, the government does still hold large stakes in telecom, oil, and transportation companies. Private businesses also generally have a much flatter hierarchy than you find in the US, and income distribution is much more equally. And, of course, the member par…

Of course you can slice the definitions in different ways, but the common definition is that the capitalist ideal of all means of production being in private hands and socialism is the opposite of that - they are all in public hands. Norway is a mixed economy. I think that the USA and Norway are not at the poles of that continuum but much more close together, especially given the Fed's recent acquisitions.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#23

Post by michael_dorfman »

dantheman wrote: post #17
michael_dorfman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I've been living in Norway for over a decade, and I've never heard anyone complain about their taxes, or paying $9/gallon for gas.

I'm not from norway, but here's a few articles I found in a minute of searching: * http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/08/24/more-tax-trouble-for-... * http://www.norwaypost.no/news/higher-taxes-for-many-pensione... I assume these don't represent the general view, but it does show that at least some people in norway dislike the level of taxation.

I'm sure they exist-- I just haven't crossed paths with any, in 13 years here.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#24

Post by xilun0 »

bobo99 wrote: post #9
zdw wrote: post #7

If you have less to lose, you're more willing to take risks. Thus having the government take care of basic welfare and health care benefits frees people to be entrepreneurial, in a sense. Compare to the US, where people are tied to a job based on the benefits they have through that job, and before the health care legislation's removal of preexisting conditions clauses, if you had a medical condition and lost your job…

But if you have less to win, why should you take risks anyway?

Less to win, maybe, but still you can read from the article: "He bought a Porsche". And I doubt everybody wanted to have one in Norway can do so (and even if it is the case, it would be even greater :P )

No human being needs 1 billion dollar to live correctly, and even in indecent luxury. Some people also value well begin of other and not only their own. (It might still be partly egoistic in a sens that this makes them feels better and it's probably very cool to live in an environment where people are happier, but i don't thing that invalidate the whole idea...)

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#25

Post by michael_dorfman »

tallanvor wrote: post #20
michael_dorfman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I've been living in Norway for over a decade, and I've never heard anyone complain about their taxes, or paying $9/gallon for gas.

Oh, come on, I hear it all the time. Generally they're either Americans or support the FrP (the so-called "Progress Party").

Must be different social circles. I don't know any FrP types, but I do know some other Americans, and I've yet to hear any complain.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#26

Post by beoba »

dantheman wrote: post #14
beoba wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing I learned is that Norwegians don't think about taxes the way we do. Whereas most Americans see taxes as a burden, Norwegian entrepreneurs tend to see them as a purchase, an exchange of cash for services. "I look at it as a lifelong investment," says Davor Sutija, CEO of Thinfilm[...].

If that was what they truly thought then there would be no reason to use force to collect taxes, they could just have a recommended donation and collect that. For some reason, I don't think that would work. This form of mental gymnastics, is very comparable to Nietzsche's analysis of the slave morality - where one alters their values in reaction oppression, so that it becomes moral, or even desirable, to act in a sub…

Let's not forget that if it was such a bad deal, they could vote to change things. When's the last time a "slave", using your words, had a vote?

But it takes more than perks to keep a worker motivated in Norway. In a country with low unemployment and generous unemployment benefits, a worker's threat to quit is more credible than it is in the United States, giving workers more leverage over employers. [...] "You can't just treat them like machines," [Bjorn Holte, founder and CEO of bMenu] says. "If you do, they'll be gone."

This is "slavery"?

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#27

Post by thomasfl »

bobo99 wrote: post #9
zdw wrote: post #7

If you have less to lose, you're more willing to take risks. Thus having the government take care of basic welfare and health care benefits frees people to be entrepreneurial, in a sense. Compare to the US, where people are tied to a job based on the benefits they have through that job, and before the health care legislation's removal of preexisting conditions clauses, if you had a medical condition and lost your job…

But if you have less to win, why should you take risks anyway?

If just being wealthy is not enough, then you probably want to live somewhere to become super rich.

I would still prefer to live here in Norway.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#28

Post by beoba »

zdw wrote: post #7

If you have less to lose, you're more willing to take risks. Thus having the government take care of basic welfare and health care benefits frees people to be entrepreneurial, in a sense. Compare to the US, where people are tied to a job based on the benefits they have through that job, and before the health care legislation's removal of preexisting conditions clauses, if you had a medical condition and lost your job…

Perhaps this is why startups are always filled with 20-somethings. Imagine how much would be done if those who happened to have families could also easily make the leap.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#29

Post by borism »

johnohara wrote: post #11
zdw wrote: post #7

If you have less to lose, you're more willing to take risks. Thus having the government take care of basic welfare and health care benefits frees people to be entrepreneurial, in a sense. Compare to the US, where people are tied to a job based on the benefits they have through that job, and before the health care legislation's removal of preexisting conditions clauses, if you had a medical condition and lost your job…

I don't know what constitutes "basic welfare" in Norway, but were the U.S. Dept. of Commerce to reimburse the health care premiums of anyone starting a new business, up to 100 weeks, I believe you would see a marked increase in the creation of new businesses in this country. If anything, it would grease the rails to becoming "ramen profitable."

wow, what an irresponsible proposal. corporations already have free speech, now they need to get government paid healthcare also? why should US taxpayers reimburse those entrepreneur's health care costs if most of them will fail to produce any jobs at all? looks like a great way to create even more moral hazard in US companies.

health care of work force should be shared between employers and society as a whole, not offloaded back and forth from one to the other.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#30

Post by beoba »

bobo99 wrote: post #9
zdw wrote: post #7

If you have less to lose, you're more willing to take risks. Thus having the government take care of basic welfare and health care benefits frees people to be entrepreneurial, in a sense. Compare to the US, where people are tied to a job based on the benefits they have through that job, and before the health care legislation's removal of preexisting conditions clauses, if you had a medical condition and lost your job…

But if you have less to win, why should you take risks anyway?

Same carrot, with less stick.
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