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Re: China

#221

Post by kick »

big_chungus wrote: post #196
echelon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being downvoted for expressing a contrarian viewpoint. This kind of censorship isn't even targeting hate speech, and it drives me crazy. Why downvote them?

Because he's criticizing liberals and most people on HN are liberals. Most censorship ("hate speech" included) is code for shutting your political opponents up. HN makes this really easy by making comments hard to read by removing contrast with the background as they get voted down; post something too much against the grain and it'll get flagged and hidden by default. When you hand users the power to shut those with…

Paul Graham:

I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness.

It only becomes abuse when people resort to karma bombing: downvoting a lot of comments by one user without reading them in order to subtract maximum karma. Fortunately we now have several levels of software to protect against that.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

Re: China

#222

Post by GoodJokes »

I would have an easier time caring if this person cared at all about all the human rights abuses and war crimes the USA continues to commit. When there are protests on Chile of equal size and coup in Bolivia, it’s telling he only focuses on China.

Re: China

#223

Post by kick »

echelon wrote: post #87
spectramax wrote: post #22

Liberal societies, such as the Bay Area (where I live), it’s impossible to criticize anyone without having the doubt of “offending” someone. When it comes to China, I can’t go out in the lunch room and openly criticize CCP because you know, I could “offend” a Chinese National. This needs to stop. I see this behavior on HN, which is frustrating, counterproductive, anti-free speech and extremely left-winged. Another pr…

You're being downvoted for expressing a contrarian viewpoint. This kind of censorship isn't even targeting hate speech, and it drives me crazy. Why downvote them?

Paul Graham:

I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

It's not censorship, censorship would be 'dang doing it.

Re: China

#224

Post by dirtyid »

camgunz wrote: post #206
dirtyid wrote: post #105

> Hong Kong have been constant allies to the West This is certainly an... interesting assertion. HK is the financial conduit that made Chinese rise possible, and the engine that powers Chinese financial influence abroad. HKers enabled this, not so much the generation that's protesting mind you, but most remotely affluent HK migrant in the past 30 years was the beneficiary to this arrangement. Overall, fairly lazy and…

> Propose and _demonstrate_ a better one. Let's start with the very simple "have more than one viable political party". The CCP would never tolerate that. The rest of your comment is casual dismissal of "cultural genocide" and whataboutism. Rather than try and distract with transparently propagandist techniques, you should really consider reforms that the CCP could undertake to adhere to the rule of law and respect h…

>That at least would be constructive.

Starting with the western values as endpoint for reform is not constructive but "transparently propagandist". Different countries apply different models at different points in development - "rule of law and respect human rights - is simply not a priority for China or many developing nations, where the moral calculus is better spent on attaining other freedoms, chiefly the freedom from want.

> casual dismissal of "cultural genocide" and whataboutism

The point is cultural genocide is something that gets pragmatically dismissed everyday in the interest of geopolitics. Just like how people like to causally assert "whataboutism" whenever the brazenly obvious is pointed out: China gets away with abuses and will continue to because America led the way. If Americans want human rights to apply to large countries, start at home and demonstrate that international rule of law applies to everyone. No one takes hypocrites seriously except hypocrites themselves.

Re: China

#225

Post by slowenough »

chrchang523 wrote: post #151
baron_harkonnen wrote: post #21

If I might post an unpopular opinion, and let me assure you I'm not secretly a pro-CCP shill: what's happening HK has much more to do with changing economic realities than it does with an evil agenda from the Chinese government. In 1997 HK had 1/3 of the GDP of mainland China and was the only way for Western companies to interact with China. Today HK has 3% of the GDP of mainland China and a huge part of this is beca…

You're missing the point, which is that the people of HK are obviously capable of a higher level of self-government, and the CCP could have chosen to allow that under the "one country, two systems" framework. All of the other members of its "Asian Tiger" cohort (South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore) have that. The CCP was not legally obligated to do so, of course; Drew IS wrong about the illegality of the CCP's behavior he…

that's rich. The Hong Kong people had their freedom and autonomy. And what have they done with it? squandered it. They've been subjects of an empire. They are not equipped to rule themselves. They don't seek self-determination and autonomy and responsibility for creating their future they seek to blame the government or China or the police. and now they are seeking to destroy not to create. And yet they should possess greater freedom?

Re: China

#226

Post by Aperocky »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #168
novok wrote: post #129

I don't think that the cheaper goods that China gave the world only benefited the %1, and actually has helped a lot people in america and the world. I also don't think that the economic miracle that has happened in China is a bad thing, and they could of been more singaporean/south korean authoritarian vs. genocidal authoritarian to achieve it. I really want china to become another Japan or Korea eventually. I do agr…

The logic behind opening things up with China (including allowing them to buy American companies) was that as they become economically successful, they would be more open to things like democracy. At what point do you realize you failed and close the barn door?

This assume the goal for China is democracy, and the one the west set for them. If they failed, we must destroy their economy, take their people into poverty, because the barn door must be closed.

This narrative basically can be taken verbatim by the CCP as propaganda material. “The west didn’t like our political system that made great economical progress, and they will try to destroy your livelihood. By the way, they think the economical success of China is entirely a gift of the west. It has nothing to do with your hard working.“

Re: China

#227

Post by driverdan »

jayliew wrote: post #192

Tech people: Rant about egregious things that China and Russia does (political, freedom, basic human rights, etc.) Also tech people: Vehemently oppose helping the US DoD with their highly-sought after skills, sign online petitions, protest and/or quit their high-paying jobs at . Serious question for these tech people: What are you exactly doing to help solve the issues you've ranted about? I'd like to hear thoughtful…

How is the DoD going to help with China and Russia? We're not going to invade them.

If you're referring to the NSA or CIA they're both organizations that ignore the US constitution so there's great reasons to not work for them.

Re: China

#228

Post by hohohmm »

kick wrote: post #195
hohohmm wrote: post #101

Full of bs that rides the trending US narrative on China. How much a self-fulfilling bubble of lies the western propaganda machine has weaved. Reading this article makes me feel like reading a white day dream that totally misses the reality, but checks all the right marks for the crusader mentality. I see how quickly this gets down voted. I guess the media is not to be blamed for fabricating all kinds of lies, for it…

News Guidelines: Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys intellectual curiosity, the value of the site.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: China

#229

Post by kangnkodos »

torgian wrote: post #45

All I can say is that I agree with everything in this article.

The article ignores the impact on poor people in the US if trade with China was cut off. In general, poor people would pay more for everything that is currently imported from China. Everyone would pay more, but poor people would be impacted the most.

I'm not sure if that's enough to say trade with China is a good thing.

But it should turn your idea of a very simple answer into a much more complicated picture.

Re: China

#230

Post by zip1234 »

esotericn wrote: post #26
mdorazio wrote: post #14

The problem is that doing what the author proposes and severing trade relations entirely would be extremely harmful to the 99% of Americans in the short term. Prices for virtually everything would skyrocket far faster than wages. And they would do so for everyone, not just blue collar workers. In the long term things might be better, but it would be a lot more painful to get there than I think most Americans are prep…

If you treat the cost of consumer goods in isolation as the only thing that matters in the economy, sure. People who are gainfully employed do not have a problem with the cost of general goods like food and electronics; this stuff is cheap. The problem (not only in the US) for most is under/unemployment and the cost of housing. Because the jobs have been shipped offshore.

The cost of housing is a complicated matter but is mostly not due to jobs going elsewhere. Single family zoning and 'never change' rules in home owners associations and cities are some of the biggest drivers of housing prices.
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